The Catholic School Leaders Podcast

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Catholic School Leaders Podcast, where we discuss leadership and Catholic education. My name is John Mahalio. I'm the President and Founder of Elementary Advancement Solutions, which is dedicated to enhancing Catholic education and connecting Catholic school leaders. I believe there are six things that every Catholic school has to have to be successful, and I want to tell you all about them. I'm going to share this quick guide with you that includes some questions for your school leadership to be discussing, In these key areas, I'm going to give it to you absolutely free.

Go to www. elementaryadvancement. com to get your free copy of the keys to a successful Catholic school today. You can get it. It'll come right to your email box. I think it's going to be really helpful. Should start some really great conversations at your school. Again, yours today for free. Visit us at the website, elementaryadvancement.

com. Get your copy today. Now, as I've been all over LinkedIn over the past few months, one of the things that [00:01:00] I've seen a lot of people sharing is the news that they have been hired to be a new principal at a Catholic school or a faith based school for the coming school year. Now, when this happens, it's exciting, it's scary, there's a lot of joy, it's overwhelming.

A lot, a whole variety of emotions are present for sure. So today i'm going to be talking to Jamison Mehar who just completed her first year as a principal of Our Lady of St Loreto Catholic School in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. I think you're really going to enjoy some of the things that she learned.

They're going to help you in your upcoming year as a principal. So whether you've been a principal for 15 minutes or 15 years, you're definitely going to take something away from this interview. Just a quick plug, if I can, before the interview. this podcast is designed to be a resource for Catholic school leaders worldwide.

If you're enjoying it, if you like it, if you're taking something away from it, and you wouldn't mind sharing it, liking it, subscribing it, I can't say thank you enough for that. Be sure to just [00:02:00] give it a quick review, quick, uh, if you can drop a kind word in the review section that's so helpful. That helps the algorithm to get it into the hands of other Catholic school leaders.

If you find the episode to be really beneficial, share it with other schools within your diocese or schools that you're connected with. Uh, it's a, hopefully it's a great resource for you. Hopefully it's something that you are taking something away from. The goal that I have here is to help grow Catholic education together.

I can't say thank you enough for that in advance, uh, and so thank you for liking, subscribing, sharing this with others. It means the world to me. So now, I want to introduce my guest today, Jamison Mehar. Jamison has always had a knack for education. Her grandmother, her cousins, godfather, and mother were all teachers.

Professors, Principals, one even a Superintendent. So needless to say, being an educator is in her genes. Her professional background has been rooted in education, leadership, and Catholicism. She attended Riverside Community College, where [00:03:00] she earned an Associate's Degree in Behavioral and Social Studies.

She then moved across the country, and transferred to Marist College in New York, and received a Bachelor's Degree in Psychology, and Special Education. After completing her BA degree, she was accepted to the Place Corps program and earned a master's degree in Educational Studies from Loyola Marymount University.

Before her time as a principal, she was a fifth grade teacher at St. Anthony of Padua, where she held various leadership roles such as the Athletic Director, the Step Coordinator, Musical Director, and Spirit Team Coordinator. This coming school year marks her eighth year in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles.

She's getting ready to begin her second year as Principal of Our Lady of Loretto Catholic School. Welcome, Jamison.

It's great to see you today.

Thank you. It's so great to see you too, John.

So you have just survived, completed your first year of being a Catholic school principal. Congratulations to you.

[00:04:00] Thank you so much. I am very excited. It was quite the year.

And now we're getting ready to start year two, right? Because that's what comes after year one.

Yes, in the order of numbers. Two

in the order of numbers, that's right. So, tell our listeners, I gave a little bit of a bio there on you, but tell our listeners something about yourself that maybe I didn't cover in that introduction,

Well, as you heard in the introduction, I'm a woman of many different talents. I love sports, I love music, TV, theme parks, I love going to everything. I'm kind of the eclectic friend in my friend groups where I can connect with pretty much anybody on any topic,

which definitely helps you in your role as a Catholic school principal, because that's something that we're asked to do is wear a lot of different hats for sure.

definitely.

So, you accepted the position of principal at Our Lady of Loretta Catholic School last year. Tell our listeners kind of a little bit about that process, maybe what led you to saying, Hey, I think I'd like to be a principal.

And [00:05:00] you know, I know you did some different coursework and, and maybe like a leadership cohorts and things like that. Talk to our listeners a little bit about that process of getting to the point where you say, Hey, I'd like to do this. And then being named, because that's a, that's an exciting exciting opportunity.

Yes, at first I did not want to be a principal. I did not see that in my cards at all. One of my former directors from place core in LMU said he saw me as a principal. And I kind of laughed it off and said, that would never happen. But then that thought just kind of stuck in the back of my mind and I kept thinking about it and preying on it, really seeing, is this the path I want to go?

And I got accepted into a program called Onward Leaders. Which is where I get to do a residency and shadow a principal for a full year and go through training twice a month, where they teach you all the ins and outs of being a principal, [00:06:00] how to do a budget, how to manage difficult conversations, and within that.

It was extremely helpful to really learn about how to tackle the role of a principal. After the program, it was focusing on making sure my resume was good and taking out parts of the resume that didn't really resonate with being a principal. Same with the cover letters. And then researching schools that had openings, seeing what those schools had to offer and what can I do with.

to really fit in with those schools and just make sure that I'm a good match for those schools. So that was really important is researching the school before you even step into the interview, before you even send the email saying you're interested in being at that school, and then prepping for interviews as well.

It was an important job to really learn how to sell yourself, but also being humble at the same time.[00:07:00]

Yeah, isn't it? It's a hard line there because you want to talk yourself up, but you also want to make sure that you're being humble to the interview panel. And, and sometimes that's hard. It's, it's because you just want to say, I'm amazing. You should hire me, but I'm trying to be humble as well.

And most of the interviews had at least five, sometimes ten people in the interview. Yes,

that, that you don't know and they're you know, talking to you and asking you different questions and ask, and each of them probably has a different area that they're looking at to try to discern whether you're the best fit for the role. And I think the program that you went through is, is, it's, it's really great to hear some of the things that they expose you to, because I think sometimes when we move into a principal role, You know, there's a big difference between being a manager and a leader of a school. And, you know, when you, you know, sometimes our assistant principals or people that are aspiring to be principals, they sometimes can tend to get the things, okay, I don't really feel like doing this, so I'm going to give this to my assistant principal to do.

And they're not getting that [00:08:00] experience that they need to be ready for that principal's chair. So I think it's great that you're learning things such as budgeting, because I think that's a big thing that principals stepping into this role may not know just how active. a role the principal plays in the budget, especially even with no disrespect to folks coming from public school into Catholic schools.

It's a, it's a different ballgame when you step into that Catholic school realm in terms of budgeting and those types of things.

Completely. And knowing where to find grants, how to write a grant, how to ask people for money, how to ask people for just supplies without sounding, you know, like begging for it.

I think one of the misconceptions a lot of people have, especially when you're not familiar with Catholic schools, is they think Catholic schools have all the money in the world, and that their tuition, that if you charge 7, 000 for tuition, that 7, 000 is what it costs you to educate a student. And, and really, that's [00:09:00] often times far from it.

We do have some schools that do actual cost, but a lot of times you're trying to make up that difference. And so when you're talking about budgeting, you do have to say, okay, how much fundraiser are we going to have to do this year? And you can't just do Chick fil A nights or coupon books or things like that.

You actually got to say, Hey, we're going to go out and do some active fundraising piece. And that gets into knowing your community well.

It does. And knowing what they're willing to do as well, and knowing the families and seeing how they, what do they like to do for fundraising, because not every family likes to go out to Shakey's Pizza for a fundraising night.

exactly. Now I know when you get your first principal job and I'm going to back up here. So, so you get that call and you get that offer. There's a lot of different emotions that go with it. There is probably everything from excitement to, Oh my gosh, now I actually have to do this to uncertainty.

Where do I begin? You're offered the position. What's going through your mind, or I guess what's going through your mind even the first couple of [00:10:00] weeks on the job?

Well, when I was first offered the position, I. did not believe it. I was actually at a theme park when I got the call and it was the same day I did the interview. So I really was not expecting

So knock it out of the park.

yeah, I must have really knocked the interview out of the park. And I just remember getting the call and thinking like, is this real?

Is this really happening? And just having this pure excitement of, oh my goodness, I, I do get to be a principal now. I get to, I get to do what I'm being called to do. And then, after accepting having the feelings of Okay now what? Now what? Is this really what I was supposed to do? I hope, what if the school doesn't like me?

You know, what if the students don't like me? What if the parents don't like me? You have all this fear rushing in, but then you just have to remember you're chosen for this. They chose you. They saw something in [00:11:00] you, and then turning that into knowing I'm called to be here, and I know what I'm doing, and I'm here to make this school a better place.

In that first year, I think a lot of time, because you get there that first year and you think, I've got to do everything. I've got to take on the world and I have to have it done by the end of the first week. Okay? And, and so I, I know for myself in, in leading three different schools that that first week, it's like, okay, there's so many things you want to do.

Yeah. But just budgeting your time and budgeting where you're gonna, we're gonna be able to put yourself because you can't do everything, can't be everywhere, and you may get called to be in a hundred different places. Hey, we'd like to have you here at this thing, or we'd like to have you visit the parish, or we want to do a reception, or I want to take you to lunch, or whatever the case might be.

You know, everybody's trying to pull you every which way, especially during those first couple weeks of the job.

Definitely. It was, I think, so many families wanted to talk to me and PTO wanted to talk to me. The parish wanted to talk to me. I [00:12:00] really had to manage what day, what time, when to do all of these different things, while also being able to be with the teachers and the students, the people that I'm with.

Therefore, in serving. So it's important to obviously make time for the community, but also setting those boundaries that I'm here for the school and to shepherd the school.

And, and how did you, because I think that's what, something you just touched on right there is, You're getting asked to go to a hundred different things but yet your main role and your main responsibility is to, is to be there for the kids and to be there for your teachers. Any strategies that you found helpful in terms of budgeting your time, in terms of budgeting how you spend your week, in terms of making sure that you were getting to see the kids or that you You know, you, you do get pulled in five different directions.

How are you choosing where you're at? Any strategies that you found helpful during this first year?

Did. I learned to block out time for doing that. specific tasks, [00:13:00] so blocking out when I'm going to be in the classrooms. And this year, I unfortunately did deviate from that block a bit. And that's something that I'm going to work for next year is if I'm blocking out this specific time, then I'm telling the secretary, make sure no one's If someone's asking to meet with me, tell them I'm not available until after that time and setting those different parameters.

I'm only going to work on paperwork from 9 to 10. I'm only going to have meetings held from this time to this time. Different things like that really will help and helped me and then also if something is not due for 3 weeks, I'm gonna maybe not focus on that right now. if I have too many other things to do.

So I made a filing system of putting that paperwork in another day. So I know when that day comes, okay, now I need to work on this. Now this is important. And just realize if it's not in front of me, I don't have to really worry [00:14:00] about it until that time period and creating just this filing system of sorting things out and blocking time out.

Yeah. And things that work for you, because I know some people like to do the paper and pencil calendars, or some people like to do the digital calendars, or some people like to do everything on their phone or whatever the case might be. And so I think that's important right there is just to find that system that works for you and knowing that's trial and error.

You know, sometimes our, our, our eyes are bigger than our stomachs in terms of saying, wow, I'm going to spend this much time doing this each week. And then you get into the thick of it and you go, okay, that's too little, or that's too much. And then you've got to adjust things. So it is a trial and error.

It is. It definitely is. And I've learned throughout the day is setting timers. So then I know, okay, I've spent two hours on this. Now I need to move on and do something else. I can't spend all day on one task. Or, okay, I'm gonna set a timer for when I'm in the classrooms. I'm gonna be in the classrooms for 15 minutes at a time.

Timer's off. I'm gonna [00:15:00] move to the next classroom.

And then you're getting to see the kids, they're getting to see you. And I think that's a great way too for the teachers get to see you because I always liked it. If I walked into a classroom and the kids just were like, Hey versus, oh my gosh, we'll have to sit straight up. And, and, you know, when they're used to seeing, whether it be the priest or whether it be the principal, or whether it be, you know, even a Bishop or a superintendent or whatever the case might be.

When the kids are, I don't want to say relaxed, but you know, when they're, when they're used to seeing you present in the classrooms, that makes just the biggest difference in the world.

That was actually one thing I had to talk to the students about because I told them I want to be coming inside and outside the classrooms all the time, so I don't want to be interrupting your learning every time I'm coming in and having you stand up saying good morning, good evening. Just, if I go in, unless I give you a signal to stand up because I have someone important with me, just carry on with your lesson.

You can wave to me and that's fine.

[00:16:00] Yeah, no doubt. And I, and I think that's, that's incredible to do right there because that means you're actually getting out in the classrooms. And as we know, you can never be in the classrooms too much. I think that is a major deposit that we can make with our teachers, with our students, with our parents, with our community is when we are seen in the classrooms.

Because then if you, you know, get a call from a parent who says, Hey this is, this is going on inside this classroom, you can go, No, actually, I've been in that room four times in the last two weeks, and I can tell you that's not what's happening in there, or, you know, whatever the case. But if you're able to speak on what's happening in the room, it just is so much more effective.

Definitely. And just being visible to the families is such an important part, especially that first year, not being the wizard behind the curtain, being out there. I made a point to make sure I was out at car line every morning and every dismissal, just so that the families knew I was someone they can come up to and [00:17:00] approach.

And also safety, too. I wanted to make sure the kids were always safe.

And isn't it amazing, too, because I know when I would stand in the carpool line number one, you get to see everybody, and they get to see you. But I can't imagine how many phone calls I avoided getting because somebody would just drive by you and they would go, Hey, quick question, what's going on with this?

And you go, what's happening here, here, and here? And they go, Okay, great, thanks. And the conversation took 15 to 30 seconds. There's interaction with a parent that you get to know what their concerns are. You get to hear things or sometimes it's, hey, can I give you a call? Cause I got some questions about this.

And you go, yeah, give me a call tomorrow at nine. I'll be available for you. You're able to really avoid those pop ins or those unexpected Situations, and so I can't it's it's such a great investment of time to be outside for the morning and afternoons There's not a question about that. It's like the best investment of time you can make

It is. And also just to be the first face that the kids see when they come in in the morning to say, Good morning. It's [00:18:00] so great to see you this morning. And for me to also know how the kids are like, Hey, you look a little down this morning. What's going on? Because that to the kids also means so much.

Yeah, and they'll tell you exactly. Hey, it's my birthday today or hey, it's you know, whatever the gay I'm going on vacation this week, whatever

I didn't sleep well

week. Yeah, yeah, whatever the case might be, but then you can see him the next time you go, Hey, how was, you know, roller skating or I don't know, whatever the case may, but whatever they were doing.

So, I think it's so important and it really makes a major deposit in your school community when it comes to engaging your community, doing those things.

It does.

So, you're done with your first year. What's something that surprised you in a positive way about being a principal that, that maybe you hadn't quite expected?

Did not expect that the students really do want to know everything about you, and they really do like talking to you, like thinking back to when I was in elementary school and middle school, I [00:19:00] did not think that the principal was somebody I wanted to talk to. And so that probably surprised me the most is just how friendly the kids were that they really just wanted to be.

near me when I was outside. They wanted to talk to me. And then I think it just made my office a better space for them that they didn't feel like coming to the principal's office was always a bad thing.

Yes, I, I, and I think that right there is so important that if, Associating a trip to the principal's office is only for negative things. That, then that makes you always the bad guy. And, and, you know, you can come to the principal's office for good things. You know, schools have demerit systems. And it's like, okay, do you have merit systems as well?

Because you can acknowledge the good things that are happening just as much as, as the bad things. And so if a student gets sent to your office because maybe it's the first time they've got all their spelling words right, or whatever the case might be, It's an opportunity to celebrate them and make them feel [00:20:00] important.

And then if they do happen to have to come down for a not so good reason, they know you care. And so I think that's dead on. And sometimes you find you're having the same conversations every day with the same kids, but it makes it really special for them because it's something they look forward to.

And I even have a treasure box. So some of the students are really excited because they don't know if like they're coming down to my office to get something from the treasure box.

Treasure boxes are huge. You know, no matter where it's at, the treasure box is a huge thing. So, so I, I kudos to you on that one. Now, I asked you something that, that surprised you in a positive way. What surprised you, maybe, in a negative way? Something that maybe you hadn't expected in your first year, or maybe something that nobody told you about, that you can tell new principals right now something you learned that maybe they can be ready for.

The biggest thing that surprised me in the negative way is that you own it all. You own everything. Everything comes back to you. The good and the bad. [00:21:00] And that itself can sometimes be stressful when you're just like, Oh my goodness. And you have to just take ownership of it. It's your school and you own it.

I often tell people, I say, when you're a principal, you get blamed for things. That you had nothing to do with, and you have to take that blame, because you're gonna get credit for things you had nothing to do with you know, directly, and you're gonna get credit for them when it was really so and so that was wrong, and you're obviously gonna acknowledge the person that did it and everything, but you're gonna get credit for those things as a principal, so it's such a double double edged sword, but yeah, you do take ownership of everything that happens in your school, 100 percent on that one, and that's, and that, that can keep you up at night.

It does. Those were, I think, some of the biggest points that maybe had some sleepless nights where I'm just thinking about everything that had happened or I wish I had a conversation a little bit better with this family. I wish I talked to a student differently. I wish I [00:22:00] talked to that teacher in a different way.

And that is just, you have to accept it at the end of the day and move forward.

Yeah, because we're not perfect. I mean, we try, we try, we try, but we're not perfect. And I think that's something I would say to new principals is just acknowledge you're going to make mistakes. And, and when you do you, you correct them as quickly as you can. And so, just know that you're not going to be perfect.

And if you're expecting that of yourself, you're probably going to have a lot of sleepless nights in this role. Is there an area that you wish you had spent more time on during your first year? And maybe to kind of go along with that, what's something you wish you would have spent less time on that maybe you thought you needed to?

Wish I did more celebrations with the teachers, especially at faculty meetings. I think that's an important part. It makes teachers want to be at the school, and I think that just creates a better community aspect for the school, and also that I was in the classrooms more than [00:23:00] what I did. I did a lot this year, but not nearly as much as what I wanted.

So making sure that I am in the school more, and I wish I spent less time on the paperwork aspect, because there's always going to be paperwork. The kids will graduate, but the paperwork will still be there.

The paperwork always, and I had a principal once tell me, and he said I do my paperwork from this time to this time, and I said, Wow, you, you, you stay after school and do it from three to four, or whatever the time was. And he said, Yeah, because that's when the kids aren't here. He said, The paperwork is still gonna be here, but the kids won't be.

And so I wanna, I'd rather save that for after school so that I can be able to spend more time with the kids. And I thought that was a really good strategy that, that he used. And as you know, the paperwork, there, there will never be a shortage of paperwork. And so, as a Catholic school principal, it just doesn't happen.

That is true. It's always there. And there's been a few times that I've done that too where I've saved the paperwork for after school because [00:24:00] I won't have as many interruptions and just to be present in the school to see, make sure that I'm available for everybody at the school too.

Yeah, 100%. And them seeing you is so important. And that creates a positive culture. You know, whether it be amongst your faculty, your students, your parents, your families. You know, what, how did you invest your time in creating a positive culture and, and I guess what, what have you done to kind of create the culture that you wanted to, to set at your school?

The one thing I did was obviously being visible, talking to families, seeing what their concerns were. At the very beginning of the year, I called a meeting where I just I had parents just tell me what, what are your concerns and I'm just going to be here for the next. Two hours, just listening to whatever concerns you have.

I'm going to write them down and then I will address them. And that's all I did was I just sat and I just listened. [00:25:00] And I think that helped because it gave whatever the parents were had this opportunity to just blurt it out. And at that meeting, I just had to just. take everything and know not to take it personally, that some of these problems were there before I even came in, and some of these problems are things that I have to fix now.

And some concerns were, they were, every parent had a valid concern, and just letting them have that opportunity to be heard helped create this culture. And then letting the teachers also know, I told them that, you know, my door isn't just for the parents. My door is for you too. If you need to come in and talk to me, that's what I'm here for too.

I'm here for you, I'm here for them, and I'm here for the students. I'm here for everybody. That it's not just this one way street. And I think that helped that the teachers also felt that they could come in here. And that they could sit down and talk to me. And [00:26:00] I think that helped build this culture, this positive culture, even students too.

I let them I created a little area for tell the principal because sometimes they don't want to seem that they're being a tattler

Right, right.

I created this little area that they could just write it on a note and keep it in my box. And I said, you know, just say you're going to go get some water. Go get your water and then you can quickly write a note.

No one's gonna know, but I'll address the concern.

Yeah. And I think that gives people the opportunity to be, you're accessible to people, which I think is the biggest thing. You know, you're not somebody who, you know, He is just sitting in your office, behind your desk, and as you said, kind of behind the curtain, this, this mythical creature that we've never seen before.

No, no, she's actually a real person. There's really a principal running this school who is a real person. And, and I think the more you can be seen The kids get to know you and they get to know you actually care about them. It's, it's making a huge deposit into those, into that account so to speak.

Talk to [00:27:00] me about your you, you mentioned about the faculty meetings and, and things like that. You know, what, what, what kind of things do you do with those, if anything? I mean, I, I know there's different ways you can use faculty meetings, but in terms of to create that culture that you're looking at with the teachers

the very beginning of the year, I created faculty norms with the staff, and these were norms that we followed throughout the whole year. And it was things that they helped create with me, based off of negative experiences They may have had in the past. So making sure that we are staying positive with each other.

We're never yelling at each other. We are respecting each other's times, trying to stay on task as much as possible so that faculty meetings aren't running four hours long, because then it becomes a place that no one wants to come to. No one wants to come to a faculty meeting that's four hours. So really just sticking to those guidelines that we created at the beginning of the year, and then having a moment that if.

Okay, we finished a [00:28:00] little early, or what are some things that you guys want to bring up next time? What's a pressing matter that we need to discuss now? What's something that we can calendar later? So I had all my faculty meetings on an Excel sheet so that way when there was a topic that was brought up that we didn't need to address at that meeting because if we addressed it that would have spent maybe 30 more minutes.

I could move it to another meeting and schedule it in and that was really helpful to be able to just have that ready to go and then the teachers knew where every faculty meeting minute was, what the agenda was, they knew what to expect coming in, and also giving them a moment just to, we called it Rose, Bud, Thorn.

So Rose, what was something good this week? Bud, what is something you are looking forward to doing this week or next week? And Thorn, what was something that didn't go too well this week? Mm

and, and giving them those opportunities to celebrate as well as, you know, Kind of say, hey, this is something [00:29:00] I'm struggling with. I think it's so important because, you know, I think oftentimes when we, we come together, it's like, no, you don't want to let your guard down to say, hey, this is something I'm struggling with.

And when you can create that culture where that's an accepted norm to, to say, listen, I'm struggling with something. I could use some help with this is so important right there. So, kudos to you for that one. And I, and I think, I think that's something that I would stress to new principals. is you set the culture in your school.

You and your pastor, as a teen, set the culture that's taking place in your school more than anything else. And if that's not going well you, you know, have to look in. And if it's going well, then, then you can patch stuff on the back of that, but keep going. But I think that, that partnership and that relationship between the principal and the pastor and the, and the administrative team that, that if you have an assistant principal, things like that they set the tone for what the culture of the school is going to be.

I think that's, that's incredibly important.

is. [00:30:00] And having those conversations with your other administrative team, that was very important to me this year because they had been there at the school. They know the school. I'm brand new. So I actually relied heavily on them. to talk to them about, Hey, is this normal? Does this happen usually? And I asked them like, what changes do you want to see?

You know, it's not all my vision. It's our vision. What do we want to do?

And that's, and that's leadership right there. We talk about managers versus leaders developing that vision and listening. I, and I think that would be one of the things I would advise to new principals is, there's, there's a time for action and there's a time to listen. You know, I used to always say if somebody would say something and one of my old advisory committee chairs would say, when I hear something once, I kind of chalk it up when I hear it a second time, you've got my attention.

But now that I'm hearing it a third time, it's like, okay, this is something that we need to address and that's serious, whether it be good or bad. But this is something that we need to take [00:31:00] serious. And so I think just having your listening ears on all the time and knowing what you know and knowing what you don't know.

And knowing who knows what you don't know is, is so critical, is so critical. Cause you don't have to know everything. Nobody's expecting that.

That's true.

So, what was maybe your hardest, and I guess I'll even, could be your best lesson that you took away from your first year?

The hardest and probably best lesson is that you achieve results through others, and at your school you have to trust your staff and you have to delegate those jobs as we were talking about earlier. You have to play to your, your teacher's talents, and that takes getting to know them. If you don't know them, you don't know their talents.

And asking. Hey there's this job, would you mind taking it? And leaving it up to them, if they don't want to, then you offered it. You gave them that opportunity to step up, and if they weren't ready for it, it's [00:32:00] okay. And just giving them the opportunities to have this ownership of the school as well is important.

Because those results, it's gonna create better results in the end. Mm

a snowball effect of getting, you know, gaining momentum with things. I think that's, I think that's so important because I think one of the things that I see a lot of times is new principals, they want to go in and micromanage everything. And, and not realizing that that actually hinders you more than it helps you.

And trusting others and just letting them do their thing is going to bring so much bigger results to your school.

hmm.

Talk to me about I recognize that some schools are centralized schools and maybe they have a designated pastor or one priest that's kind of assigned to oversee them. Others are parish schools that have a person that directly works with you and partners with you.

Talk to me about forming that partnership with the pastor at your school.

Obviously, you have to talk to the pastor. [00:33:00] That's the first and foremost is seeing their vision as well for the school and working with them and talking to them about what you would like. I am very fortunate that I have a really good pastor that's easy to talk to and is a phone call, a text message away.

He's very helpful with that, and I'm very blessed to have a pastor that is that way. And then just asking him, You know, hey, I really would like if our school did more of this. So next year, I asked, I would really like to have more adoration at the school. What can we do to achieve that? For Lent, I would like to have Stations of the Cross in the church every either Thursday or Friday.

And just talking to him and seeing what he also wants, you know, asking what celebrations do you want the school to really focus on? As a Loretto school, we're a Marian school, so we have a huge Marian celebration. And so one thing [00:34:00] he's asked is that the school participate by carrying a banner, by singing, by doing different roles, To involve both the communities together, because we don't want it to be the church, the school, it should be one thing together.

And it takes me talking to the pastor and the pastor also talking to me.

An intentionality behind it. Like, it can't just, like, happen on accident. There has to be that, I think, intentionality between, you know, him seeking you out, you seeking him out, and really forming that partnership of that common vision for what it is the school is going to be doing. So, I used to have a superintendent who would say there's no more important relationship than, than the pastor principal relationship on a, on a campus.

And so, I think that's, that's tremendous right there. I know one of the things that I see so much anymore, and we've seen this so much, probably over the last five years. I mean, let's just call it what it is with, especially with everything with COVID and everything like that. Teacher burnout is a real thing, but [00:35:00] principal and leadership burnout is a real thing.

How did you balance your life during the first year to ensure that you didn't burn yourself out?

Made sure to do things for myself, whether that be hanging out with friends, going to a movie I also picked up working out a lot as well and created a group that we would work out at least once a week with each other, and that seemed to help a lot to give this outlet. And then also to just pray, really having that firm foundation of prayer life really helps a lot, knowing that when the going gets really tough, that you can give your cross up to God.

And there were times this year that, you know, I was in the office, I was really stressed out. And so I just, I told the secretary, I'm just going to go across the street to the church. I just need 10 minutes, and then I'll be okay. And knowing that that, like, that was an okay thing to do, because [00:36:00] we're at a Catholic school, they recognize that, and just being able to do that was amazing.

To just sit there and say, okay I'm going through a really tough time. just going to give it up to you and know that you're going to be there to help guide me.

Surrender it. Just to surrender and just to say, I trust the plan that you have for this. I, I agree with you. I think that's so, critical and beautiful that we can do as Catholic school educators is just to say. I'm going to take this time to go pray, or as a school community, we're going to start our day in prayer, or as a faculty, we're going to start our meeting in prayer, or we're going to go to mass once a week together, or to celebrate, you know, sacraments, or special occasions, I'm sorry you know, whatever the case might be, but to me, that Catholic identity Part of who we are and it is just so critical.

And I think that's something that we, we need to make sure that we always are and I always say that we're not a private school. We're a Catholic school. The Catholic is very much front and center in our, in our title. And so [00:37:00] that needs to be something that we are each and every day. So I, I think that's so critical.

Yeah.

And it was good to be a role model for the students, for them to know that even I go through a hard time too, and this is what I do when I go through a hard time.

And, and it's not all the, the first year, I think for any new principal, we The first year is not all chocolate coins and puppy dogs. Okay. It, it is not just everything is, is just the greatest thing ever. And you do have that honeymoon period you know, of, of like, Oh my gosh, we're so happy that you're here and, and you're wonderful and everything is great.

And, and then, you know, you're going to have that. And I always say the high, the, the, the goods are never as good as you think they are. The bads are never as bad as they think they are. So I think keeping that even keel. throughout the course of the year and knowing that you're not the first person that's ever gone through probably what it is you're experiencing.

Yes, definitely. And I also have a good group of Fred principals. We're all [00:38:00] principals in Catholic schools and being able to have that networking group is extremely important to send a message like, Hey, I'm going through this problem. What advice do you guys have? I 100 percent suggest that for everyone.

new principals as well, is to create that little friend group of principals of administration that you can rely on and go for help.

Yeah, no doubt about that. When I think that's one of the things that I, a mistake is, is when people say, I have to go through this alone either maybe because they're afraid to tell somebody else they're struggling with it, or they don't know who to go to, to ask for help you know, I know we have mentors and things like that that usually are assigned to us, but you know, sometimes we're just afraid to say, this isn't going as well as I thought it should, and I need help.

And sometimes, you know, something that, you know, could be a band aid that you just need to, to fix the problem now becomes something much more serious. And so, I would say that don't ever be afraid [00:39:00] to, to ask for help in your, in your first year or 30th year, I will say, don't be afraid to ask for help because, you know, we can never do this on our own.

It's too big of a job.

that's true.

So year two is approaching in, in like, in like 15 minutes, right? A year two is is approaching. What are some of your goals for this coming year?

One of my biggest goals is to create this ownership among the staff, the students, and the families. I want when people come here to be proud that they come here. Not that, oh, I go to this school. I want them to really say, I go to Our Lady of Loretto and I'm so happy to be there and to create this just unity among all of us.

And I know that's a really high, high goal, but you know, you have to shoot for the stars.

Absolutely.

aim up there. And that's kind of my biggest thing is just seeing what can families do to help out the school, what can the teachers [00:40:00] do to help out, and just giving them those opportunities to really shine with each other and the opportunity just to really love being here.

if you, as you sit in your principal desk, getting ready to begin the second year, kids are going to be back here in about a minute you have the audience to talk to new principals. Somebody who is either, I guess first let me say this, you're going to be able to talk to somebody right now, What would you say to the person who wants to be a principal one day?

Maybe they're going through their schooling right now. Maybe they have just been hired as an assistant principal or a dean for the first time. What do you say to that person to kind of get them ready for that first opportunity to sit in that principal's chair,

First and foremost, pray. Pray about the position and Just accept everything in, be open to everything that you hear that the school offers, [00:41:00] and just trust that you can do it, if you're being offered it, the job, you're being offered it for a reason, and you can do it, and just know that You know, even when times are tough, it's okay to ask for help, and even when times are going great, celebrate those times too.

It's very important to celebrate the good and, and acknowledge the bad as well. And I think that would be my, my biggest advice to a new principal coming in is really just take it all in because the year does go by so fast. I'm still Can't believe one year is gone already.

still recovering from year one?

Still recovering. It still feels like it's year one, but it's year two.

And I would say too, to the principal, maybe the aspiring principal, who's, who's yet to get that opportunity. Don't get discouraged if maybe you thought you were going to get that opportunity and you didn't this year. God has a plan for you. His plan will [00:42:00] be better than your plan.

I promise you. And, and don't lose, you know, don't lose sight of what your end game is. Continue to learn, continue to ask questions, continue to improve, and maybe even ask in your principal or, or somebody that you're working with, hey, what are some areas I can improve on? Because I think that's one of the things like that I used to say when I would observe classrooms is don't come show me the lesson you've done 15 times that you know is great.

Show me the one that you're gonna maybe step outside your comfort zone a little bit. You know, let's, let's, let's, let me observe that one. And, and I think the moment we create that culture of safety that, that it's a great thing to do. So to, to the principal who's out there, the aspiring principal who hasn't gotten that opportunity yet, just, just don't get discouraged.

Stay at it and, and keep learning

And always ask what you can, what you can do better as well. Ask what leadership positions in the school can you do? Those are important as well.

Yeah, without question, without question. So, I cannot thank you enough, Jameson. I wish you nothing but the best and, and prayers and success as you [00:43:00] begin year two and, and for all those principals out there who are getting ready to start that first year we've all been there. All of us who have been a principal have been there.

We survived the first year. But I think one of the things that, as you know, is don't go at it alone. There's such, so many different people out there that are in the same boat as you. Get that support system for yourself and, and get that team that you have on in your, in your own school community and diocese and whatever the case might be and, and just have at that.

So, Jameson, I can't thank you enough so much and I wish you nothing but success this second year.

Thank you so much, John. It's been a pleasure talking to you. And to all the new principals, good luck.

All right.

best.

Yes, most certainly. You got this. If you're enjoying the Catholic School Leaders podcast, please be sure to like and subscribe, and don't forget to share these podcasts with other Catholic school leaders in your network. [00:44:00]