The Catholic School Leaders Podcast

Brian Jodice
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[00:00:00] Welcome to the Catholic School Leaders Podcast, where each week we discuss topics important to you as a leader of Catholic schools. I am your host, John Mahalo, the president and founder of Elementary Advancement Solutions, where our mission is to work with and connect Catholic school leaders to help them improve their schools.

Well, one of the topics getting a lot of attention over the past 10 to 15 years is today's podcast topic, whether you call it school choice vouchers, tax credits, or any variety of names. More and more states are making funds available to parents for schools of their choice, including Catholic schools. I was blessed to be joined by Mr.

Brian Joda, the Executive Vice President for Parents for Educational Freedom here in the state of North Carolina. Now, whether your state or your school is here in North Carolina or another part of the country. Brian offers excellent tips and advice for helping schools and families benefit from these programs and even how to find out what programs might be available in your state.

I hope you find this episode [00:01:00] beneficial in your work as a Catholic school leader. I wanna say a big thank you to Brian for his time. During the recording of this podcast, you will find what he has to say extremely, extremely beneficial to you as a leader. If you find this in our other podcast helpful, remember to like and subscribe so that you'll find out the minute.

Future podcast drop. We have some great guests lined up to talk about topics that are directly on the minds of Catholic school leaders. . I hope you enjoy today's podcast. Here it is.

I wanna welcome everybody to the Catholic School Leaders Podcast. My name is John Mahalo. I'm your host today, it's a pleasure to welcome Brian Joda, the Executive Vice President of Parents for Educational Freedom in North Carolina, to be our guest today as the Executive Vice President, Brian leads the organization's communication and messaging across all platforms. Heads up the media outreach efforts works to develop and advance relationships with key stakeholders across the state. He's a longtime advocate of educational freedom and he is worked with some of the nation's leading school choice organizations.[00:02:00] He has pushed to advance school choice on the state level.

He has also traveled the country to produce and market powerful stories. of families, students, teachers, and schools who have benefited from school choice and the K 12 education reform. Welcome Brian.

Man, that's amazing. Uh, that's a lot to say I get to be a. Part of a leadership group at an incredible organization with some amazing people that do a lot of those things you talked about, John. So it's great to be with you, man. Good to see you, good to talk to you. Good to talk to your listeners and, uh, excited to talk about, uh, school choice and what we're doing here in North Carolina, but maybe how it pertains to a larger audience too.

Awesome. Well, it's great to have you as well, and I know we've, we've done some work together in the past, and so, it's just great to have you, have you, on tell us a little bit. About yourself. Tell the listeners a little bit about yourself and kinda how you became so

passionate about school choice.

Yeah, man. Well, first of all, I'm just

thrilled for your journey here, what you've got going. I think you're gonna provide great value to those that you serve in this space. And to the folks

listening. I mean, you've got a guy here that knows his [00:03:00] way in and around. Catholic schools and can really be of, of incredible value.

So I'm just excited for your journey and, uh, any chance to, , to come on a podcast

and talk about. What we're doing here in North Carolina, what it's meant to me, obviously jumped at the opportunity to do that with you. My dad was in the Air Force when I was a kid. You know, we moved around a little bit, but when I was going into the fourth grade, we moved to Goldsboro, North Carolina.

He got assigned at Seymour Johnson Air Force Base flying F fifteens. and my parents and my family were looking at what are we gonna do with the three boys and What would their schooling look like? And my parents were Catholic educated all the way, basically from kindergarten through high school for my dad, uh, a long way through grade school, for my mom.

And, and they decided,

you know what? We'd like that Catholic

education to be part of our boys' lives growing up. And it just so happened to be a, a small but mighty, little Catholic school over in Goldsboro. Yeah. St. Mary Elementary. K eight over there. and uh, they got us in that school. Fun, fun story that I did not know.

I never [00:04:00] knew until I was an adult and started working in education reform and school choice. There was not a seat for me at that school, , right away. and I was enrolled at the local, elementary school and my two brothers had a spot at St. Mary's. And like, no joke, the day or two days before school started, a spot opened up. And the three of us were able to roll in together at the same time, which is pretty incredible. you wonder what life looks like I mean, odds are, I would've ended up there eventually, but could have been a totally different year. And and that was my fourth grade year. and So you know, We moved there. We were very fortunate based on my dad's deployments and work, we got to

be there for six years in a row.

So I was at that school, fourth grade through the eighth grade, and then spent one year in a local public high school, which was an eye-opening experience after being in a school of 300 man to a couple thousand,

Which was crazy. So, so that was sort of alright. That was our upbringing, right? Our intro.

to private education, to school [00:05:00] choice. And you know,

you think back on it all these years later, and

, my family's been a school choice family for a, long time. My parents were very fortunate to be able to exercise right that option. But I know for a fact that there were classmates of mine that did everything they could to ensure their kids were there. I think about a friend of mine who we were either in the fourth or fifth grade, his mother tragically passed away. His dad was an auto mechanic. They scrapped tooth and nail to make sure their two boys could stay at that school And the community rallied around them as well. and I think about where we've come. From, you know, 1992 to 2024 and what's available for families they wouldn't have had to scrap like they would've back then. 'cause we would've had programs like what we do today. And so, you know, that's why I'm real passionate about what we do. I um, You know, I, I was a sports broadcast major at Appalachian State. Spent about eight years working local tv, shifted into the communications digital media space, and I got introduced. To a national organization in probably 2012 called the American Federation for [00:06:00] Children, and they're one of the premier national school choice advocacy and education groups. And, uh, I started doing a

lot of client work for them. and So that was my first foray into actually working in and around education policy, education reform. You know, we were doing a lot of video production at the media company I was at at the time, and We got to travel the country with a FC and see, see that firsthand. And I got to go to. States like Louisiana after being decimated by Hurricane Katrina. See how school choice, quite frankly, save some

communities. So I just got pretty passionate about it and then God intervened and, provided my family the opportunity to, uh, kind of return home for me. My wife's from Philadelphia originally. She's Catholic, educated all the way kindergarten, like preschool through college.

She went to La Salle in Philly and God intervened and, and gave us an opportunity to come home, uh, to North Carolina. And joint Parents for educational freedom in 2016. And so we've been, there since then. Now working at the state that raised me, right? My home state, [00:07:00] right. Military kid, you know, people where you're from, like a I'm from America.

I'm like, yeah, but you know, north Carolina's my home state. And so to be able to give it back, it's been been a great journey over the last, uh, you know, six, seven years here.

That's awesome. That's awesome. And, and North Carolina is one of those states they have a program called the Opportunity Scholarship Program, which I know is something that your organization's pretty passionate about and, and recognizing there's listeners from all over the country listening to this.

We're gonna ask about the Opportunity Scholarship program first, and then maybe talk about some things in, in other states. So, Brian, tell us a little bit about what the. The Opportunity Scholarship Program and how it started out and kind of where it's evolving.

You know, we've always had sort of quote parental school choice in North Carolina in any state, right, through whether it's public schools, right? We've had charter schools in North Carolina since 1996. We've always had private schools, but for those families who maybe based on their zip code or their income couldn't get there for families that could not afford it, right?

Private education. Comes with a bill every single month for that tuition. Right. It we [00:08:00] started to shift a mindset to where it was, well, you have school choice if you can afford it. Well, you know what though? That's a barrier to entry for way too many families. So in 2013, North Carolina created the Opportunity Scholarship Program.

It's very similar to programs in other states. Right. Indiana, Milwaukee, Wisconsin had one. Florida's got a big program, and it's a quote voucher program, which means that before when it was created to. Basically this last year, families at a certain household income level would be eligible to apply for this scholarship, right?

And if they met those eligibility requirements and if they were selected, they were then given a scholarship and their child's name, which is the beauty of it, to then go towards the private school of their choice. Right? So the dollars go into the North Carolina Education Assistance, authority, who administers the program?

Families apply for it. They're awarded, they've got a school of their choice in mind. Like a St. Mary's in Goldsboro are like the 544 I think schools in North Carolina today [00:09:00] that enroll kids with a scholarship. They endorse it in their name, right? Goes to the school of their choice, and they're able to use it to offset those tuition costs.

And so it was created in 2013. Passed and and became a program in 2014, was immediately thrown in court by the state's teachers. Unions viewed it as a threat to public education. We can talk a little bit more about those sort of misnomers around the program survived. All that was deemed constitutional and since then has grown and today about 32,000 students are sitting in schools of their choice with the program with.

Some pretty incredible expansion on the horizon as well. So I'll take a quick pause there 'cause I'm sure you've got other questions about it, but that's a little precursor. The beauty of it is founded out of serving those who need it the most, right? Finding opportunity for low income families across our state, hardworking families, no doubt, to be able to then leverage , their tax dollars to go towards their child's, uh, education.

You mentioned a minute ago, just some of the misconceptions, of the [00:10:00] program. What, what would you say just in terms of whether it be the opportunity scholarship program or school vouchers in general, what are some of the misconceptions out there about those programs?

The biggest argument that you constantly kind of hear from those opposed is that, you know, you're siphoning money or you're taking money away from public education. We should be solely, investing state tax dollars into public education. And while I'm a proponent and believe that yes, we should be doing everything we can to have the strongest public schools in our communities.

It doesn't mean that that has to be the end all, be all in education, right? We need strong public schools, we need strong fire departments, strong police officers, all those things, right? Deserve the resources that they need to thrive. But simply this, John, and you know this 'cause you've been in plenty of schools.

You've been ahead of schools, right? You've served at many different levels. There is no perfect make and model for every single child. Kids are not one size fits all. Education should not be one size fits all. So to think that we are to take every single dollar that our state allocates for [00:11:00] education and plug it into one system is a system focused mindset over students.

And so this idea that, you know, you're siphoning or taking money away. Quite frankly, the public schools should and are funded based on the students that are in their schools. Get the resources you need to be able to do that, and I'm just a proponent that tax paying citizens of our state should be able to tap into that to be able to use towards their child's education.

We're not saying Right. You gotta give every single tax dollar back. But if you're no longer leveraging the system that you are paying into, then I think they should be able to leverage some of that towards private education. So we view it as, and you've heard me say it already, we view it as the money following the child, right?

Funding students over systems. And what you're doing is by endorsing that scholarship and that student and family's name, you're putting it on them. You're not funding the private school with the quote public dollars, which also, opponents will say, excuse me, you know, you're trying to fund these private schools with public dollars.

No, we're letting the money go with the kid to the school, their choice and let it work out from there. [00:12:00] And I think that's just the best way to promote sort of educational opportunity across the board. 'cause I think it'll cause everyone to look around and say, all right, what are we doing to make sure we're serving our students best?

And that's the name of the game is our schools have to be all about the kids. I mean, that's, that's what we exist for. That's what we're

there

for.

Yeah. Unfortunately though, in too many cases, my friend we're, we get a little more focused. And by the way, this is likely happening at every, at, at schools in all makes and models. So this is a challenge to school leaders in public education, public, charter, private, even homeschools. Are you always thinking back to that end user?

The student let's be less focused on adults in buildings. Look, we gotta pay. Teacher salaries. We gotta increase those to give teachers what they deserve. We've gotta do infrastructure things to make sure our schools are safe and sound, but can we constantly be thinking about end user, student end user student end user student?

Can we be thinking about what can I be doing at my school maker model to get a, a talented teacher in the classroom, an engaged parent and a student who wants to learn?[00:13:00]

Absolutely. When you have that partnership, you see schools that'll thrive. I mean,

That's just the name of the game right.

there. So, So, let's talk about from the, from a school administrator standpoint, 'cause there may be some, some principals or admissions departments Listening to this episode, what have you found is the best way to engage parents to take advantage of these types of programs or maybe to promote these types of programs within their school settings?

I'll start by giving a plug to the great team at Parents for Educational Freedom in North Carolina. You know, we've been in existence since 2005, and our goal is to educate families about these options, right? Like there are options in our state and we're a grassroots organization that travels all over North Carolina.

So to educate them, right, to engage with them at the grassroots level, to empower them to make those choices. That's what we exist to do. And we've done that by building out a really talented. Passionate and a hardworking parent liaison team that if you're an administrator in the state of North Carolina and you want to tell families more about their school choice options or how to navigate the scholarship programs, we have 14 moms [00:14:00] across the state that live to serve,

right?

So that, that seems like, look, it's low hanging fruit rights, easy for me to say. Hey, what should administrators be doing? Well, I think one, you should be contacting P-E-F-N-C about how our parent liaison team can help your families navigate these expanded school choice options. John, you've seen it firsthand, right?

I'm

I have, I

In it firsthand. Right? So I think that's a great way to do it. And look, it, it is, there are, there are a lot of nuances , and new ways in which families can explore those options. So one, I think administrators, right? Find somebody potentially on your staff that's super passionate or can be knowledgeable about the programs that exist, right?

Get them. Learned up on what's available, and then look for organizations like ours that can come alongside and either help inform other schools in your community or quite literally host parent information sessions on the regular, right? Our calendar's built out host and parent information sessions across the state to be able to help schools through that.

Because as you know, as a school [00:15:00] leader, you've got 3,763 things going on. Really? You had a lot happening.

Just, just on Monday, right?

Yeah,

Yeah, just on Monday you haven't even had a cup of coffee yet,

yeah, that's the thing I think to for, especially for schools, uh, not just in North Carolina, but across the country. I recognize there's schools out there that may just have one, one administrator to kind of

wear all the hats in the building.

And so to take advantage of, of the help that, organizations like yours can bring to the school to help educate families. And I know we've had, uh, you know, in schools that I was at when we'd had a parent, information night about such a program, you'd have standing room

only. And, And, I think that's the key right there, is just getting the information out to the families, who can benefit from such programs and, and to help them along the way there.

So I, I guess the question for you then is, is that why don't more schools take advantage of these types of programs? What's the fear that's holding them back, or what mistakes are you

seeing schools make, , to not help families take full advantage of these types of

programs?

We hear a lot of things, you know, in our state we've [00:16:00] got, you know, something to the tune of 840 private schools, right? Schools that are a, a designated, a private school. Now, they don't all maybe look exactly like what you think a school might look like. Some of those could be very small schools, could be very, uh, laser focused.

But for the most part, we got about 840 private schools in North Carolina. 544 of those schools enroll kids with an opportunity scholarship currently. So that's about 65%. So we're doing pretty good in North Carolina as it relates to schools that benefit from the program, I mean, there's a couple things.

One is. Knowing that such programs exist in your state. So if you're listening in North Carolina, we've got two private school scholarships that you could potentially help students with. The Opportunity Scholarship, which before was income-based now is not all families of all incomes are eligible for the program.

Now. Their scholarship amount can vary and their priority in being awarded a scholarship can

is big. That's big. It's

Which is big. It's, it was a ma massive expansion, uh, in North Carolina to what that [00:17:00] program's gonna look like. We also have a special needs education savings account in North Carolina as well.

So if you're listening in North Carolina and you're administering a private school, you got those two programs that you can. Get information on it. Quite frankly, you just email info@pnc.org. Tell us you need help. We can walk you through it. In other states, there are other programs, there are other voucher programs, there are other ESAs, there's tax credits.

I mean, there is a lot out there. There are a lot of states that have programs like these that you can benefit from. So get to know the information and then look, I mean, there are certain rules and regulations that come along with participating in a program like this. We have tried with all of our might in North Carolina to keep those rules and regulations as minimal as possible.

And quite frankly, we are one of the most school choice regulation friendly states. In the nation, but as an administrator and as a school leader, you do have to look at, okay, if, if we do. Participate in this program, [00:18:00] right? What does that mean for things we are going to have to do? Quite frankly, some schools will never participate in a program like this because they don't want any government, interference in what they're doing.

And that's an ideological conversation that your school has to have. But there is always a fear of sort of the camel's nose under the tent. And, a lot of these programs are created. Passed into law by state legislatures. So now you're dealing with politicians at play, you know, making rules and regulations around, , programs like this.

'cause it is public policy. So I think for some schools and some communities, right, that is a barrier to entry, right? We want to be left alone, we wanna be a hundred percent private and do our own thing. You know what? I can understand that. Right? So it's a big reason why many families choose to homeschool.

It's not the only reason, but it's a big reason. , so those are some reasons when we hear from schools or communities as to why they might, consider getting on or not getting on a program [00:19:00] like this. You know, I would make the argument that the benefit of empowering those families. With what is rightfully theirs to use towards their child's education.

Hopefully outweighs some of those cautions. But I think you've gotta look at your state, look at the programs that exist, look at what the rules and regulations look like, and then make that decision, okay, is this a sound thing for us to do? But you think about, you know, if you've got 200 kids in your school.

You could stand like in the state of North Carolina to potentially put six to $7,000 with each one of those kids. Boy, that's quite a, that's quite a program that can benefit, that can ultimately, right. Remember end user, who's it gonna help the most? Yeah, it's gonna help your school community, but ultimately it's gonna help those families.

So that's what you gotta take a look at. You know, with programs like

this.

Exactly. , and the kids, you know, when they get that opportunity, they, they thrive. I mean, they thrive in, in the schools. We've seen it firsthand and it's, it's an incredible, uh. Thing to be part of. So you did talk a little bit earlier about, , some programs [00:20:00] in other states. You know, obviously you focus on North Carolina,

but there are other other states that have some programs out there.

So if you're a principal in, in state X and, and, whatever it might be, what are some of the different ways that, that you would go about if, finding out about these programs in your school or, or about other states that may have these programs

available?

Two great organizations to mention, and not exclusively the only ones, but they are two really incredible organizations in this space, on the national level that can tell you exactly what programs exist in your state. Right. So edchoice.org, EdChoice is the name of the organization, and again, you heard me mention the American Federation for Children, go to both of their websites.

They have. Excellent resources on what school choice programs are in each of the states. They got dropdown menus and maps and all this great stuff. In fact, it's where I got some of the data that I'm gonna tell you about. So I'd recommend going there, right? Seeing what's available in your state, and then finding whoever administers those programs.

Or if you're not in North Carolina looking for a school choice organization like [00:21:00] P-E-F-N-C. So you've got the Palmetto Institute. Our friends to the south, , Indiana's got great groups. I mean, there are groups all over the country, right? So just look in your state, hey, what, what might be available for you?

But also find out who administers those programs. In North Carolina, there's a state agency that administers, in some states it's at a Department of Education, so find that out as well. 'cause then they can give you the ins and outs of what might be available for you. You know, in North Carolina we've got that voucher program, the Opportunity scholarship.

Really, we like to call it a scholarship program. And we've got that ESA. Which is an education student account, right? Money goes into the account and the parents can actually use it for more than just tuition. Parents with students with special needs have a lot, have a lot of needs, and they're able to leverage those dollars.

And honestly John, I think it's the future of what school choice looks like in our country. This idea of when you're awarded the dollars go into an account that is. It's got a lot of fraud protection and admin overview on it, so you can't just buy whatever you want with it.

It has to be for [00:22:00] specific things, but what you can do is. If tuition is $6,000 and you've got a, education savings account scholarship of 10,000, you can use it for tuition. And then most importantly, and especially with our students with special needs, you can use it for other services, rehabilitation services, technology, things of that nature that are a part of that.

Rounded education world. So it is, you're right. It's a great program, and I think it's the future of these ESAs. We've got about 34,000 kids currently in our state. That number's gonna explode quite a bit here in the next year with opportunity scholarship expansion. But as we sit today, right, we've got about 34,000 kids either on an opportunity scholarship or an ESA in North Carolina by my math.

That puts us in the top five. We could be 5, 6, 7, but we're in that sort of top seven range. For private school, uh, choice enrollment in the country, the biggest state with the highest sort of scholarship, ESA tax credit combination is Florida. Florida's been a leader in this space. We actually [00:23:00] learned a lot from how we created the opportunity scholarship in North Carolina.

From our friends in Florida, step up for students, and they're just an incredibly school choice friendly state. They've got about 187,000 kids on private

school scholarships. Arizona's got a new ESA program, which has about 70,000 kids on it. Ohio's got a voucher and a tax credit that's got about 68,000 kids on it.

Indiana's got a great. A scholarship tax credit, ESA, that's got about 45,000 kids on it now, if they hold true. Right. And we see the growth that we're about to, you know, we might start creeping our way up there a little bit. So our home state, right where you and I both reside today and we've gotta pump our chest out, a little bit of pride is, is doing pretty darn good as it relates to educational

options and school choice.

Absolutely. Now, and, and, and sometimes, uh, one of the fears I, I, I hear is, is okay if I start this program, what if it goes away?

What do you say to

those, those folks?

In the, in the early days, it was a battle, right? We'll use our state for an, for an example, program has passed. Families are excited, thrown right into court, so we've had to battle [00:24:00] along the way. But the beauty of it is this, whether it's at the state level or even at the federal level.

School choice programs. These quote voucher programs ha have stood up and been affirmed and reaffirmed legally every step of the way, right? They are deemed constitutional at the federal level and at state levels. So the idea of any sort of, court order to remove them is one thing. Now, look, you heard me talk before.

About the fact that all of these programs are created and passed into law and funded at states by state legislatures. Right? So that is a, that's a real thing. And we've had to, in our state battle against, proposals by governors or even state chambers to shrink or even flat out, just get rid of the program.

That's something we've had to take into account. And so one of the things we do is we educate families about where the program comes from, who supports it, and uh, how they can help support those efforts. You know, with 34,000 kids, the, the bell here I is rung and can't be unr. The genie's outta the [00:25:00] bottle, the toothpaste

is out of the the tube, right?

Whatever metaphor you want me to use, right?

So. The game's in the fourth quarter and we're at there like, there's like we're we're, it's out there. So it would be very hard to do that in a state like ours. But if you're in a state where it's in the early days and the numbers are low, why be working your legislature?

I'd be doing everything you can to increase enrollment. I'd do everything you can to share the great stories about the lives who have been impacted.

You've seen em firsthand. I've seen 'em firsthand, right? My family today is, benefiting, from school choice, right?

Our kids are in a school of our choice. it's those kind of opportunities as, as an administrator to learn the most about your program. Talk to your legislator about how great these programs are and just show them the real examples. Like, do you want to take this scholarship away from, you know, these 30, 40, 60,000

kids?

Of course not.

Yeah, exactly. Now, and now if, if I'm, uh, I'm a school administrator, I'm sitting. There I'm listening to this podcast and this all sounds great. Let, let's lay out the breadcrumbs here. [00:26:00] If, if you're gonna talk directly to a school administrator who has never taken advantage of

such a program, whether it be in North Carolina or, or any state, lay, lay the breadcrumbs out there of, of the steps you would be taking here over the next month, two months, three months, to really get things started and, and really how to get things, uh, going for families

that, that you

want to be able to take advantage of these types of things.

I probably first just want to talk about the ideology and tell me about your school. One misconception or fear is that we're gonna have to change our curriculum and change the way we do business around here if we participated in a program like this. And what we've always said, and our president at PFNC, Mike Long was the head of school for many years.

And one of our biggest things that we tell school schoolers is we would never advocate for you changing the way your school operates, your curriculum, your values. It's why families wanna be

there

to begin with. But there are steps to take to, to be able to participate in programs like this.

And so what I would suggest is find out what programs exist in your state. Find out who administers those programs, and then check with 'em [00:27:00] about what the steps are to then make it a reality for your school. And think about this, what could in North Carolina, for example. You don't have a single kid on the opportunity scholarship, but now every family in our state is eligible to apply.

They're not all guaranteed to get it right. We're still dealing with, capped budgets, but they all are eligible to apply. What could $7,000, what could $6,000 per student do for your school and do for those families? Think about that. Look at what comes along with. Participating in a program like what we have here, and if that aligns with the mission, the values, and the growth of your school, then find out who administers that program and see what the steps are to take to get on it.

Right. In North Carolina, you have to register for the program. You have to show that you are a functional, private school, but the steps are not that arduous and don't take that long

to be able to then be on the program. They're not overwhelming. Right. And where we sit today. , our program application opens up February 1st, and families must apply in that first month to be in the, to be in the lottery, to be able to be [00:28:00] considered for the program.

So our days are ticking here, but it also doesn't mean you can't look out to the future of what it could look like in 25 or

or beyond.

Yeah. And if, and if, uh, principals have questions about this or they, or they really just wanna learn more about this, I guess just in the state of North Carolina, or other states across the country, they, they may say, Hey, let me get a hold. A hold of this guy so that it maybe

he can point me in a

direction.

How would they get in touch with you?

Yeah. So best way to reach our organization is just hit the info account that comes into multiple email addresses at our organization, info@pfnc.org. I would highly recommend going to EdChoice and American Federation for Children's website. Find your state, see what programs are available and see what organizations like ours might exist in your state as well.

School Choice Week. Also Google Them. School Choice Week has some great resources about aligned organizations in states as well. So I would check those three places and see what might be available in your state, like A-P-E-F-N-C that might be able [00:29:00] to help your school navigate what options are available.

If you are in the great state of North Carolina, reach out to us info@pfnc.org. Our vice president of External Affairs works directly with

school leaders every single day, and she can point you in the right direction as well,

That's awesome. So no reason out there that you shouldn't take advantage of these programs and, and get involved with them. Brian, I wanna thank you so much for your time today. It's been great chatting with you. Looking forward to continuing our great work together

and, uh, wish you nothing but success in the future.

say my

friend. It's been a great time.

Alright, have a great day. We'll talk to you soon. Wow. Talk about a lot of great information in one podcast. Thank you so much to Brian for your time and all of your knowledge and expertise in this area of school choice. I'm gonna include some links that he spoke about in the show notes below.

Don't forget to like and subscribe to receive updates on Future Catholic School Leaders podcast episodes. I. I also encourage you to visit www.elementaryadvancement.com to learn about the services offered by [00:30:00] Elementary Advancement Solutions, including our coaching, as well as our mastermind groups available for principals, aspiring principals, development directors, and admissions and recruitment directors.

Welcome the chance to have a virtual cup of coffee with you to discuss how we can help your school move Catholic education forward. Thank you for listening. Have a great day everyone.