The Catholic School Leaders Podcast

Rebecca Sanchez
===

[00:00:00]

Welcome to the Catholic School Leaders Podcast, where my guest today is Rebecca Maesta Sanchez. She's a product of the Archdiocese of Santa Fe, graduating from Our Lady of Annunciation in St. Pius X High School. She's been employed in the diocese since 2007. She is thrilled to be leading one of Albuquerque's biggest legacies, St.

Mary's Catholic School. She describes this school as historical and iconic. with a rich 100 plus years of educating New Mexico's children. If you didn't attend St. Mary's, you certainly know someone that did, she tells people. Rebecca has a bachelor's degree in elementary education from New Mexico Highlands and a Master of Science in Educational Leadership and Administration from Creighton University.

She believes passionately in Catholic education because it is the only model where Jesus is the center of the [00:01:00] classroom. Virtuous behavior is taught and academic excellence is expected outcome. Rebecca is married to her husband, Michael, and they live on a small farm next door to her mother. They have four adult children that also have been educated within the Archdiocese of Santa Fe.

Rebecca, welcome!

aspiring

thank you. It's so good to be here.

Absolutely, it's great to see you. So, a product of Catholic school out of New Mexico, now leading a Catholic school in New Mexico, so I'm going to guess that Catholic school has really made an impact on your life, not only personally but professionally. Tell everybody about, just the impact of Catholic education and what it's meant to you.

You know, I think it truly has been an impact on and shaping me on what I do today and how I do it. I tell people that come in, wanting to register their children in Catholic school, we, we send our kids to Catholic school because it works. That's why we do it. And anytime you have Jesus Christ in the classroom.

That's the [00:02:00] game changer. So yeah, so that's a big thing for me and I think it's, uh, I know it's a big thing for the team that, that works with me every day. Having Jesus Christ in our classroom is totally the biggest difference that an education makes for a child.

And if Jesus is not at the center of what we're doing, again, I've said it once, I'll say it a hundred times, then we're a private school. We're not a Catholic school, and our Catholic identity and our Catholic culture is something that really makes us unique as Catholic schools. Yeah,

No, that's very true. And I also, I say the same thing too. I would say if we're not educating all of God's children, then what are we doing?

exactly. Exactly. And I think in education, you know, over the past couple of years, we're seeing a big turnover. So creating a great place to work is crucial. It's more crucial now probably than ever before. Your school has been named a top place to work for three straight years. And I'm just curious, talk to our listeners for so four years now.

So she's giving me a four now. So we're up to four years in a [00:03:00] row. And talk to our listeners about what makes your school different for your employees. Why is that such a great place to work?

First of all, being awarded top workplaces does not come from me. It comes from the employees. They answer an anonymous survey. I never get to see, their individual answers. I just get to see the overall product of the team as a whole. And so it's. It's a business model that the Apple Cookie Journal, focuses on.

And so most people that participate are businesses. But we learned firsthand during COVID that we're businesses. So we started jumping in on this and there's just a couple of schools that do it. It's not very many schools. They mostly are, medical businesses, IT businesses. You know, there's a variety of them.

And I think one of the biggest things that makes. St. Mary's a great place to work is that we are a collaborative team. I've never been a big advocate of top down leadership. I don't think it works. I've [00:04:00] never wanted to lead that way. And so we tend to try to focus on the process of being a school and rather than the goal, not to say that goals aren't important, they are important, but getting there.

is so much more fun if you do that together collaboratively as a team. The other thing that I think is really important is, relationship building. One of the things that I've done since I've been a leader is I meet with my staff, every week, so individually. So if you're a new employee, you meet with me once a week.

If you have been with us for a year or more, I meet with you every other week. So this is a time during your prep time that you scheduled at the beginning of the year with me. And it's, it's a sacred time. I mean, we, I try very hard to make those appointments. And if I can't, we reschedule or I come in and touch base with you quickly to make sure we're all in a good place.

And these meetings are so that. I can find out [00:05:00] what you need from me to support you, especially if you're a new employee or you're a young new teacher. Those are very important things. Nothing is worse than not feeling you are supported by your administration, in my opinion, as a new teacher. And so, a lot of those conversations, we talk about best practices, we talk about some of the things you might be struggling with in the classroom, sometimes we talk about, your grandfather that just had a heart attack, or your dog that you just had to put down.

It's all about getting to know the individual. Teachers will never, ever take risks. If they don't feel supported and backed, and the only way to get them there is to have that personal relationship with them.

And I think by making that investment of time so that they know each week, okay, I've got this that I really want to talk to Rebecca about. I've got this that's really weighing on me. But I know on Thursday that we're going to have that half hour time to sit down, [00:06:00] really makes them, as you just said, feel supported, makes them trust you, and makes them know that you're looking out for their best interest.

So I think that investment of time, what's the one thing everybody wants more of is time. And by prioritizing your schedule to invest in your people, it's got to make a big difference for them.

One of the things that I know that, that when people hear, oh, it's a great place to work, or it's a great, you know, hey, I really like, sometimes that perception is, oh, well, the inmates must run the asylum, then, or things like that, which you and I both know is nothing further from the truth here.

And so one of the things that in making, this a great place to work, and, and one of the things that making a school a great place for everybody, is you can't give in to every single request that comes your way. You know, I once used to ask, uh, when I interviewed, if everybody's happy, it probably means you aren't making any serious decisions in your role, okay?

And I'm sure you don't say yes to everything, because you are making serious decisions at your school. So talk to us about that fine line between giving your faculty what they [00:07:00] want, and giving the, faculty making the best decisions for your school in the long run, which then creates that great work environment.

Well, I think one of the big things is being, a collaborative team. So when we have to make decisions, we make them together, whether it be by grade level or content level, whatever that may be. We always make those decisions together. And I very, very rarely. Make a decision alone, because we know we are always better together, and when you've got years and years of experience behind those decisions, that trumps my 17 years of experience.

So I, I don't ever think that I have the, that I know the best way all the time. So that's why it's so important to hear from the team as to, okay, how are we going to tackle this? What are our best practices in solving this problem this challenge, whatever it is?

and I'm guessing then what that also [00:08:00] creates, and this is the lesson, that when you do have to say no, there's that understanding behind it of the why that they were heard, but that you didn't give them what they, what they were seeking this time

Exactly. And I, and I think, you know, when we have to say no to something that somebody thought, would it be a great idea? And they do hear the why behind it, they understand the ramifications or whatever the implications would have been with that decision. There's so much more understanding. I mean, the, the buy in is there.

and they know they were heard. I had my chance to express what I thought was the best thing. But now I also know why you made the decision, and it didn't go my way this time, but maybe it'll go my way the next time. one of the things too that, that I think is important, and Matthew Kelly talks about this in his book, The Culture Solution, is the difference between creating a positive culture, And giving a perk.

And, and I think the trap that a lot of principals fall into is that they give out perks and then when they've got to pull [00:09:00] something back, what it does is, is it actually creates a bad culture, instead of, of feeding into that positive culture that they have. So, can you talk about maybe is the difference there between The positive culture and giving your teachers a perk that that kind of makes them peps them up a little bit.

One of the comments that I've really embraced from Simon Sinek is leadership is taking care of the people you've been entrusted to lead and taking care does not always mean giving perks. So it supports exactly what Matthew Kelly says about culture and the culture and the climate.

You know, those are two different things. You can create a culture and that climate is still. What does that feel like when you're walking through those halls? What does it feel like when you enter the classroom? And you know, one of the things I always remember. when I first started at St. Mary's. Now keep in mind the teacher's lounge is right next to my office and I would hear giggling and laughing going on in there and I would walk in and [00:10:00] they would stop and it was just so, wow, that's very telling.

Yes, yes

was very telling. It was like, we got some work to do

here.

So that's why the one on one check ins come in, that's why public praising, if they feel comfortable with it, is something that's important to do, but you can't do that if you don't know, there are some teachers that do not like that, that recognition, and there are other teachers that thrive on it, so getting to know What your teachers respond to is half the battle.

It's, that's, that's the work. That the legwork that principals and administration, and administrators have to put in place in order to see how you're going to recognize. Because everybody needs recognition. It just looks a little bit differently.

and I think you hit the nail on the head too because There is nothing that will get a person to close down more that if [00:11:00] there's somebody who doesn't like to be you know a lot of pomp and circumstance and and you recognize them in front of a full faculty meeting it makes them less likely to want to do the, the action that you were recognizing.

And so, I think that's an important thing right there is investing in getting to know your employees and them getting to know you can go a long way in terms of creating that culture.

Right. Well, and the other thing, too, I think is really important to mention, too, John, is that there are a lot of times a staff, a teacher will handle something in a way maybe I wouldn't have handled it, and maybe it backfired a little bit, and then I get involved, and to that parent or student, or whomever it may be in front of, I always tell this to my staff, I will always have your back, even if I don't agree with you.

In private, we'll have a very different conversation

of why that might not have been the right path to take, but in the presence of that parent or that student, we are a united front, [00:12:00] and that I think is so important. For teachers to have that, even when they may make a mistake. So,

And even, and I think where that goes even deeper is, is that you talked about walking into the teacher's lounge. When you're not around, you know that that support is there, and we recognize that, you know, no workplace is complete without a little bit of drama or things like that, but, you know, we want to make sure that we limit those things.

And we know that nothing can kill a school culture faster than workplace drama that spreads through the halls. That'll undo a culture real quickly, and it doesn't need to be a lot of folks, it can just be a few. Talk to me about how you create clear expectations. I'd probably start during your interview process.

I know you have a very thorough interview process that you do, and onboarding, and just ensuring that the workplace drama is not only discouraged, discouraged, I'm sorry, but it's not going to be tolerated at all.

yeah, we do, we have a, it's rather a lengthy process. It's a business model of [00:13:00] interviewing that we adopted, from Darren Hardy, who is an entrepreneur. And I learned about him from my brother, um, who was a very successful, real estate developer here in New Mexico. And one of the things we started is.

We had, we adopted that model but made it for education, made it for teachers. So it begins with an online questionnaire and this is important because then you get to see people's writing skills. Writing skills as a teacher are very important. Then we score it. Once we get that back, we do a phone interview.

And that's very low stress because we're not face to face. It's over the phone. And it's just in an attempt to get to know the applicant a little better. Then after that, we invite them in to meet prospective members of the team they might be working with. And that is by far, I think, the most important part of the interview, because I'm not [00:14:00] involved in that, I don't show up for that, it's just teachers they're gonna be working with, and I don't give them a script, I want them to come up with the questions, because interviewing is a skill, and we don't do it very often, we just do it when we need a job, and so I, I'm hopeful that If you get to sit on the other end of the table as the person doing the interviewing, you're seeing things that you might not have seen when you interviewed for a position.

So they interview them and that's a group interview. And, you know, usually it takes place on campus. It usually takes place in the teacher's lounge where we can sit a lot of people. And if I walk down the hall and I'm hearing laughter and that kind of thing, I know it's a good thing.

If the interview ends in like 15 20 minutes, this is not a good candidate

for our team. And then I get the feedback from my staff. What did you think? What were your takeaways? Then after that, if it's during the school year, we'll invite the candidate in to teach a [00:15:00] demo lesson.

I will observe that lesson, and I usually just try now that, because I don't have an assistant principal, um, what I'll do in a situation like this is after I interview, after I observe them. Teaching. If I feel it's This is gonna be a good candidate. We bring them into my office and I ask them, what were your, what went well?

What, what do you wish you did different? And when they can say the things they should have done different that I thought, oh, I wouldn't have done it like that. This is a home run.

Yes, well, and you're already establishing that trust. You're already establishing, you know, that partnership. And I think something you just said there, is very important. You don't have an assistant principal. You're, you're doing this, okay? And, and so to, to the principal out there who's listening to this, who goes, Yeah, that's great that Rebecca's doing this, but I don't have time for that.

I would make that counterargument. You don't have time not to do this. Now, maybe you don't need to do it the exact same way, but you don't have time not to meet with your people one on [00:16:00] one. You don't have time not to invest in the people that you're looking to hire. You're a one person show out there.

for sure. And, and the other big thing about that is that you pay now or you'll pay later. So you got to pick which one you rather do. I didn't always used to interview this way and I wasn't always getting the best people. I was getting people that, wow, that. This is a great candidate. And then the first day of school shows, first day of school comes around and you're now in the first month of school and you're like, that's not the person that showed up for the interview.

So you, I think if you invest a little bit and pay and put the legwork in, in the beginning, you're much better off.

me ask this question to you. So, you meet with your faculty one to one each week. Tell me, walk me through what a one to one would look like, so we sit down for my one to one with you and I'm a brand new teacher. Tell me what that looks like. Maybe it's [00:17:00] February, and I've been doing this for a couple of months now, and we're going to sit down, or maybe it's August, and it's the first one we've had.

Walk our listeners through what that looks like and what it is that you're trying to accomplish from those in terms of specifics.

so usually starts off with something like this, and it all, it's a little different depending on the time of the year, of course. So what's the greatest thing going on in 5th grade? What's new in 5th grade? And I just listen. And, you know, depending on what it is, I just listen. You know, sometimes we're dealing with behaviors.

Right after Christmas, we had to have a hard reset for kids. You know, they've been off for a couple weeks, and so now we're doing a hard reset. We're going to get, jump back into learning because, you know, everybody knows that third quarter of the school year is the most challenging academically. So this is when we see kids tank a little bit.

And so we've kind of talked a little bit about what's going on, what best practices are doing. all of our classes have service projects to do. So sometimes we're talking about that. Sometimes I have teachers that come in with notes, that they've [00:18:00] taken over the last week and then that they write those down because that's what they want to ask me when they come in for their check in.

I always ask, how's your family? I've been there long enough now that I know pretty much everybody's, spouse or significant other by name, their children by name. I don't know their parents by name, but I certainly know if their parents have had health issues. And so I always ask, how's your dad doing?

Especially if he, you know, just had that heart attack two months ago or whatever it might be. Those kinds of things. I also, around this time of year, we start talking about prospective teachers that we need. We are the only dual language Catholic school in the state of New Mexico. And so we're adding a grade every year to our program.

So we always need a bilingual teacher. every single year. And so that's been very, very challenging. And I can't recruit that on my own, so I need my staff. So I'm, I'm asking them, do you know any teachers? So they're clearly involved in the operations, the daily operations of a [00:19:00] school, on a different level, you know, of course it's a little, you know, As a principal, you and I both know that that looks a little bit different, but I definitely, consult with them and ask them about prospective hires, even prospective students.

We have a perk that we do right now that if you're a family member of our school and you bring us a licensed teacher and she signs a contract and fulfills a year contract, we give you 1, 000 off your tuition.

So I've actually had teachers that have students in our school that have gotten that perk because they had a buddy that was a teacher and wanted to come to Catholic school.

So,

And then that creates that sense of, of we're all in this together. And, and cause you, those folks are, know what you're looking for. They know what would be a great fit for the school. And I think that's where you get into trouble sometimes is when you rush because like, oh, we need this teacher in and we got to rush to hire because everybody's short on teachers, and so this person is qualified, and let's hire this person, and, like you said, you pay now or you pay later kind of thing, and making that investment of time is, is [00:20:00] huge.

This model of interviewing, is it foolproof? No, it's not. We certainly have gone through this model with candidates, gotten them on board, and it was like, okay, this is not working out. But it's rare. It's very rare that that happens.

And I think what you're doing is you're, you're tilting the odds in your favor on that one.

Yeah, you're, you're playing the percentage of that. you know, I, I always say to, to leaders that, You know, it's obvious that you're somebody who puts your oxygen mask on first so that you can help those people around you.

And I know that that's something that when, when we were first getting to know each other, you said, listen, I'm, I'm the person that if I want to be the leader that I want to be, I've got to go out and make myself better as a leader so that I can be there for, for my teachers. Tell me about, Just talk us through that.

What, tell us how you invest in yourself, how you do your things to make yourself better so that you can make others around you better,

well it's, for me it started as soon as I became, a school leader. [00:21:00] Is I, I'm constantly reading books and, or I should say listening to books because I commute into town. And so I listen to a lot of audio books and I tend to steer away from educational books. I work with a team with hundreds of years of experience.

I have mentors and, and friends and network with people like yourself that have all these years of experience. I don't need to read a book on education. I need to read a book on leadership, business, entrepreneurship, development, those types of things. So those are the things I feed myself. The other thing that is really easy to get, to put on a back burner is your, your health.

This is not an easy job. It is lonely sometimes. It is It's not a nine to five, it's not a 40 hour week job. This is a 60, 70 hour job. And so how do I take care of myself for fitness [00:22:00] and health and eat well and, and water intake, all of those things that make our bodies function much more productively.

I, my administrative assistant is my key right hand person that she is pushing me out the door so that I can get. to my Pilates class during the week. So those kinds of things, having that support system so that I can continue to consult and care with my staff instead of command and control, because when those things aren't taken care of, we tend to steer more towards commanding and controlling when really we need to be.

And so it's really a conscious effort to make sure that, you know, you're exercising, you're getting the right water intake, you're eating healthy, you have your day planned out and organized, and all of that takes time to do. So that's part of feeding myself, but one of the things I really like [00:23:00] doing is growing teachers.

I love developing teachers and nothing is worse, I think, when teachers get into the field and they teach the same grade level, the same content for years. That is, I don't think that pigeonholing is a very healthy way to do, for teachers. So I have a teacher who came in teaching fifth grade. She's now in charge of advancement.

She was a business owner at one time and she does amazing work. She's really creative with stuff like that. And so she's doing advancement for our school, which is taking an enormous load off my plate, because we can't do it all, right? She also does the internal IT for our school. I'm not good at IT.

She's, she's the pro at it. So she's the perfect person for that. I have another teacher next year that you and I've talked about. She's going to be a part time instructional coach. She's got a baby at home and she's, this is her way of staying home more with her child. but still keeping her foot in the door.

And I [00:24:00] was a stay at home mom for 12 years. Best job ever. I totally respect that when parents, when mothers want to stay home with their children. And I'm going to try to do my best to help you do that. So she was involved in the interview process that found her replacement. And so, things like that, growing people.

I mean, I think my staff sees it that if I'm going to be constantly improving myself, Then that's what I expect of you too, so when you and I meet for our mastermind, my door is closed because they know that is, that's my time for me to grow myself. And so there's no interruptions during that time, and it works out really nice now that I'm in this mastermind because we're during the day, which I can carve out time during the day.

It's when I get home. that I want to be mom. I want to be wife. I want to be daughter. I have things to do in my home. I don't want to be turning my computer on to check on a fire here, a fire there, to join in a mastermind. I want to have, I want to try to have left that. So I'm, it's taken [00:25:00] years to get me here.

I did not start off like this. I mean, I started off doing 10, 12 hour days and occasionally there's still a 10 or 12 hour day. But it's rare. It's rare. It's just, it's just the system that's been put in place now. And you've got to have that outside support system to make sure that you can continue on that trajectory as well.

Well, and I think one of the biggest things, see, everybody always hears that, that saying of, you know, put your oxygen mask on first. But I heard a speaker once say this, that there's two things. Number one, You can't care for others if you're not caring for yourself. But number two is, is when you're not caring for yourself, and you're, you become an obstacle for others, okay?

If you think about that scenario with, uh, with, you know, but he, he said you become an obstacle for others, and you are preventing them from, from getting where, where they can be and maximizing their potential. And so I think that's so critical right there when people say, I don't have the time for this, or I don't have the time for that.

I don't have time to meet with my teachers. I don't have time to get in the classrooms. [00:26:00] You don't have time not to and and we all know that the the best laid plans of hey I'm gonna get into the classrooms today at nine o'clock and I'm gonna do this and then at 859 this walks into the office Okay, we got to deal with this right now.

This is but but then okay, when am I gonna make that time up? When am I gonna you know, like you said if something comes up and we've got a reschedule I let that teacher know this is why we're rescheduling. When can we, when can we do it? And this is what's going on. And I, and that makes them feel very valued and appreciated.

I'm guessing

Oh, yeah, absolutely. The other thing too, I think that's so important for leaders is to be present and visible. Rain, sleet, or snow. We're out there with music jamming and, and having a good time and just creating that environment that is enticing to be a part of.

and the good thing about being in the car line that you get a lot of business done in the car line too.

yeah, so, if there was an issue with the kid and the car, the family's entering the car line off 6th Street, which is what they do. [00:27:00] I go meet them in their car, at their car.

Sometimes I get in their car, it just depends, or I walk alongside them as they're making their way through the car line, and I'm having that conversation of what we had to deal with today with their child and, um, or whatever it may be, sometimes it's, I've got, I got the funniest story to tell you about what your kid did today, and they can't wait to hear those stories,

Absolutely. And a 30 second, 45 second conversation in the carpool line. prevents a 20 to 30 minute conversation on the phone later on. And, and I think there's always something to be said about having that face to face interaction right there, with a parent. And, and then they know that you know their kids.

You're not just you know, just, oh, that's another one of the kids in our school. You know, they know that you know their, their child, which is so important. That's what parents want.

Yeah, if you ever want to see a parent just beam and glow, call their child by name, and so I work really hard to get all those names down, usually by Halloween.

they'll [00:28:00] test you on them too. They'll test because, hey, tell me my name, you know, and they'll let you know. Now, I want to go back here, if I can, just real quick, because you talked about something that I think is such a great thing, and that is that you are Constantly trying to find the best things for your school in terms of, hey, you say, I moved this person from this grade to this grade, or this here to here.

And it's not that somebody has done something wrong, but it's actually that they've done something very right. And sometimes teachers can take that very personally, like, oh my gosh, he doesn't think I'm doing a great job in this grade, or she doesn't think I'm doing the, quite the opposite. Tell me what those conversations are like when you sit down with a teacher to say, hey.

I realize you're doing a great job with X, but I really would like to talk to you about doing Y to get them over those, those fears and those things of, of, oh, I don't know about this. This is what I'm really comfortable doing. I don't know. I don't really want to step outside that comfort zone.

Right, well, we all know that, growth does not happen until you get out of that comfort zone.

Yes.

What [00:29:00] it teaches teachers, and I have a teacher right now who's going to be changing grades again, and some of that is enrollment numbers. But she's also that teacher that has taught multiple grade levels.

And so what you learn when you do that, you get that vertical alignment. You have a better understanding of what is important as those incoming third graders come into fourth grade, because you not only taught fourth grade before, but you taught third grade. So you get that piece. That is such a valuable skill for a teacher to acquire, and the only way to get it is to change grade levels.

That's the only way I can get it. I do have my teachers go and observe a grade above them and a grade below them just to see, but that's not the same as actually teaching it. That's just a little, that's just your big toe in the water. That's not jumping. I think the other thing too that's really important, is teachers need to understand that being flexible is the [00:30:00] greatest Gift they can have in a school when teachers are flexible, you know, as a leader, I can count on them to do X, Y, and Z.

They got this. She can do this. She's not going to fall apart if she has to go do this. They get that, you know, those teachers are, man, they're so valuable in a school. But, you know, as we know, as school leaders that You get a plethora of all kinds of personalities, all kinds of goal setting, all kinds of different individuals that you're going to have on your team.

Just like when you're a teacher, that's what comes in the door and sits in those desks, is kids all over the place. Grade levels, emotionally, spiritually, it's the same thing for teachers.

When you have those folks who you say, okay, listen, you're teaching 5th grade, so you know what these 6th graders need, or you're teaching 5th grade and you know where these 4th graders are not coming in with, I want you to go there and, and, and [00:31:00] help them get that.

that's such a key piece right there. And when all those pieces right there, the whole is so much greater than the sum of its parts when you do that. Yes.

For sure it is. And the other thing too, John, that's so important is that they need to know that you believe in them, you got this, you got this and I got you, don't worry, you're going to be fine, you know? And so, because they do get a little nervous, you know, especially, and sometimes it might not even be just changing grade levels or changing content of what you're teaching, but maybe it's just.

Having to have a really difficult conversation with a parent. And those are also growth opportunities. Because the more you do that, the better you get at it.

And every little thing that you can do to invest in your people makes your school a stronger place in the long term. And I think that's what I take away from everything is just the little investments along the way create this big investment of a wonderful culture and a wonderful place to work. Which it sounds like is what you have down there.

[00:32:00] Oh, I truly believe it is. And we spend so much time At work, we might as well have fun and enjoy each other while we're there and make the most of our hours together. It, nothing is, is worse than having to go to a place you don't love to work.

Absolutely, and I used to tell everybody, we want to be the best version of ourselves, we want to make others the best version of themselves, and then as a school, we will be the best version of ourselves. And it sounds to me like you've certainly created a great version of your school down there, in New Mexico.

And in

I, I think it is. I think it's a great place and, we definitely do have a good time with one another and, and we genuinely love each other. We're, you know, it's not, we are a family and it's not to say that we always agree with one another because we don't. But we get through those times and we get through them together.

did you say earlier, when I did the introduction of you? You want it to be a model of where Jesus is at the center of everything that you're doing in your school. And [00:33:00] and I think that's certainly something that that comes out clearly in that. So Rebecca, I want to first thank you so much for your time.

Thank you so much for your insights with all this. I really really enjoyed getting to know you and getting to work with you and just wish you the best of luck throughout the rest of this school year.

Well, thank you, John. And congratulations on starting a brand new podcast and for having me as a guest. , I it's going to be great in years down the road to say, Oh yes, I remember him.

Well, thank you so much for being part of it and uh, we'll look forward to catching up with you here real soon. So thank you, Rebecca.

Thank you, John. Have a good one.

If you're enjoying the Catholic School Leaders podcast, please be sure to like and subscribe, and don't forget to share these podcasts with other Catholic school leaders in your network.