The Catholic School Leaders Podcast

Well, today my guest
is Father Luke Rowicki.

Uh, he's the chaplain at
Cardinal Gibbons High School.

Father Luke completed two years of
architectural studies at Texas A& M

University before joining the Seminary
of the Legionnaires of Christ in 2009.

During his seminary years, he earned a
bachelor's in philosophy and theology

and from Regina Apostolatorium
Pontifical University in Rome, Italy.

Fr.

Luke spent three pastoral
years in Washington, D.

C.

directing faith and leadership
programs for the youth.

He was a three year
catechism teacher at St.

San Salvador in Lauro Parish in Rome.

After being ordained a deacon, he helped
direct a large youth organization in

Monterey, Mexico, while supporting
students as a spiritual mentor at

the Irish Institute of Monterey.

Father Luke was ordained a
priest in Rome on May 7th, 2022.

And as I mentioned before, he's
currently the chaplain at Cardinal

Gibbons High School in Raleigh, North
Carolina, where he accompanies students,

faculty, and families in their journey
of faith and human flourishing.

Welcome Father Luke.

It's great to see you.

Great to be here, John.

It's fantastic.

So you, you are, uh, at Cardinal
Givens High School here in Raleigh,

North Carolina, and you are
blessed, I should say the school

is blessed to have you there.

And you serve there as their chaplain,
and I just know all the great things

that are going on over at that school.

But let's talk, let's back
up just a little bit here.

You entered the seminary in 2009.

Talk a little bit to our listeners about
the role Catholic education played in

your formation and in your discernment.

Yeah.

So I grew up, I'm a third of six kids
in a Catholic family and my parents

always made sure that we were enrolled
at a Catholic school growing up.

So I think that had a major impact on.

my life just because it was always second
nature to have Catholic education, to

pray at the beginning of classes, to
have masses on, you know, the major

feast days in the church calendar.

so yeah, I think that was foundational
for my Catholic upbringing.

And, I think another aspect of it that I
think about quite a bit as now chaplain

of a Catholic high school is that while
it was a Catholic school, I don't really

remember ever having close relationship
with any priest on the campus.

And I got a little lost in my
years of high school, especially.

And I think many times, just often how
helpful it would have been if I would have

had kind of a trusted faith mentor in a
priest to be able to go to with questions

I have, doubts I have about the faith.

kind of helped me understand why the
church says no to certain things.

so also, while that was so
helpful, I think there were also

certain things that were lacking.

And that has kind of motivated
me to prepare myself to, I mean,

to, yeah, I guess be the best
instrument of God's grace that I

can be for all the students and be
approachable and be accessible to them.

Yeah, and I think, I think that's a
great point because sometimes it's like

you, you, you know you want it, but
when you have it there, it's like, oh

my goodness, this is such a blessing and
such a, dare I call, resource to have.

But I mean, honestly, your goal is
to help the students, grow in their

relationship with Christ and to,
and to help them find their way.

And, uh, Recognizing in a school
as large as yours, there's a lot of

people coming from a lot of different
directions on that type of a thing.

Yes.

And, and one of the things I found most
interesting in, in, you know, getting

to know you and, and your bio, and, and
for those of you that, that don't know

that, I mean, you, you heard a little
bit about Father Luke at the beginning.

But you've been able to serve and to
minister worldwide even even as we

were talking kind of before recording
over the summer You'll be doing some

mission work and things like that.

Yeah, and as Catholics, I think our worlds
sometimes are so small anymore You know

in speaking, you know to a friend He said,
you know, the the experiences that he's

enjoyed the most or when you when you
were get to know other people and other

cultures outside of our own worldview.

Um, what have you taken from just,
just your, your work across the

world, and maybe some of the, your
favorite places that you've visited?

Yeah, um, gosh, a lot.

I, I felt spoiled throughout actually
my life before joining the seminary,

becoming a legionnaire of Christ.

And then especially I think during
this time, because I have been able to

travel a lot and live in some places
that I never would have imagined.

So, just a tiny bit of background on that.

My dad, because of his job,
we'd move around a lot.

So I was, you know, born in Louisiana.

And after that, the longest
we ever lived somewhere was

five years, but that was rare.

It was usually like between
two and three years.

Uh, so that brought us all around the
United States, but also to Australia

when I was little, and I think that
was, you know, one of the ways that

God went preparing me for my missionary
life, because as a legionnaire of

Christ, like other religious groups,
missionary groups, Uh, you're not

gonna be stuck in one diocese.

You're not gonna be stuck, you know, as,
as parish priests feel called to serve in

their diocese and they will remain there.

a missionary vocation sort of implies,
entails that you're willing to go

to another continent, learn a new
language, adapt to a new culture.

So I think part of, yeah, God, God's
way of calling me and preparing me

to be a legionary of Christ was that.

And then, yeah, you're exactly right.

As a legionary, I started in
Connecticut, in Rome, in Washington, D.

C.

Uh, as well as once you're in Rome
and in Europe, you have all these

awesome opportunities to, you know, go
visit a Marian shrine like Lourdes or

Medjugorje, which I've been to both,
or Fatima, uh, to, you know, attend a

youth festival in Salzburg, Austria to
spend a month driving around Austria.

So, it helps you to, yeah,
you gain a lot of perspective.

It's eye opening to see
how, different cultures.

you know, live out their faith as a
deacon in Mexico, again, a very Catholic

country, but they also have their,
their style of, of worshiping the

Lord, of gathering young people, kind
of the activities that attract them.

And, also, yeah, different perspectives,
even senses of humor that I think has

just helped me um, not take my one way
of looking at things too seriously.

I think that's something
I'm extremely grateful for.

And then I, yeah, you can't
overemphasize enough living in

Rome for six years, like being that
close to the Vatican, to the Pope.

I was there when Pope Francis came
out on the balcony for the first time.

I was there in St.

Peter's Square.

So like you're living the
history of the church right in

front of you every single day.

so that just, yeah, fills you with
gratitude, but also just a lot of,

hopefully healthy, holy pride in who we
are as a Catholic Church and everything

that the Holy Spirit has done throughout
these 2, 000 years, as a church.

Uh, so that's a huge privilege that
I do not take for granted at all.

absolutely.

And, and I think living the culture, As
opposed to just visiting it for a couple

of days is a much different experience
because, you know, I can travel to

Europe for a week and go to church at a
particular church or cathedral or whatever

I may attend Mass at, and I've got a
snippet of that, but when you're living

it and you're truly, working with and,
and each and every day and, and living in

that culture that, that gives you a much
different perspective on things for sure.

Wow.

Yes, it was, I think it was that aspect
that attracted me the most, that,

okay, I'm going to be in Italy six
years, first of all, I really need to

be able to speak Italian after this.

And, and I really wanted to kind of
get to the point where at least I

didn't feel so much like a tourist
and again, that meant, you know,

getting out of your comfort zone.

I signed up to be a catechist
at a local parish in Rome.

And, uh, again, those were just
amazing experiences because every

culture has its, uh, advantages.

And also, I guess it's challenges
when it comes to evangelization,

like these kids are living in the
footsteps of countless saints and Pope.

Every street corner has.

You know, a St.

Barry there and you're just thinking why,
why, like, why don't these kids get it?

Why aren't they more
excited about their faith?

Why are they just going through the
motions when you, you're literally like

you have Padre Pio's Gloves that are
bloodstained with his stigmata at your

parish and you don't care, you know So it
was like also has like that challenge of

okay They kind of do take it for granted
and there were even kids in our Catechism

class that had never been inside St.

Peter's Basilica And it was 10 minutes
walking distance from their house

And, and, and for us, we would jump on
that opportunity in about one second.

Yes.

It would be like, how quickly
I'll get in line right now, you

know, to, to go tomorrow morning.

Well, and, and I think that your work
in terms of, You know, having to move

around a lot and, and, and assimilating
to cultures and getting to know what's

going on, that's got to help you connect
with, with students at the school, because

you've got kids that are very outgoing.

You've got kids that
may be very introverted.

talk about how that, has influenced
you, because I know sometimes for our

Catholic schools, you know, we want
to teach our kids about the faith,

but sometimes we, we maybe don't know
how to reach those kids who, Maybe a

little more introverted, or maybe don't
want to outwardly live their faith.

And tell me about that experience
that you've had in your, in your

travels, and how that's impacted the
work that you're doing right now.

Yeah.

I, um, I think I've had
just a lot of good examples.

I'm a, I'm the beneficiary of a preach
priest reaching out to me, going out

of, getting out of, going out of his
way to reach out to me, remembering

my name after I'd met him once.

So I went to Texas a and m University,
still kind of in a phase of just

distancing myself from God and my faith.

And I was leaving mass
one day on a Sunday.

And he called out to me as I walked
out the doors towards my car by name.

And I think because he did that, I
was then much more open to then, you

know, what he had to say after that.

And he invited me to a talk and that
ended up being life changing for me.

So, I also just, I try to, um, not let
different fears or, um, I guess, yeah,

like comforts or I don't, I don't ever
want to be comfortable with, uh, like

the few students that maybe have that
spiritual sensibility, sensitivity, and

they're already coming, because I want
to reach out to those kids that were like

me, that didn't feel a connection with
the church, and you're right, there are

the extroverts, and they're, maybe they,
it comes easier to them to try something

new, but also the introverts, I think
everyone, I know everyone needs Christ,

and I know everyone wants to feel like,
you know, someone cares about them, and

is willing to take the time to answer
their questions, so I think it's, yeah,

just, you really have to get creative
and think outside the box, come up with.

Activities are going to attract,
you know, the, the different sorts

of people, but then I think even
more than that, uh, something that

I've learned that I try to apply is
just meeting them where they're at.

So if they're athletes, I'm going to
go to their games and cheer them on.

If they're in drama, if they're
in music, orchestra, same thing.

Art, there's an art show I'm going
to try to, You know, get to know a

few of them and, really take time to
appreciate what they're doing, what they

feel like is important for their life.

And then once, you know, you've made that
connection at just human relationship,

then now, I think they're going to be
more open to hearing about what you

think is important, which is the faith.

And kind of a combination of doing
a lot of different activities.

And again, thinking outside the
box to attract different types of

personalities and, and sensibilities.

And also getting out of your comfort
zone a lot, because it's, yeah, it's,

it's just, again, very easy to stay kind
of between, you know, your office, your

campus ministry area, and just kind of
wait for kids to come to you, but as

Pope Francis is always, always, always
emphasizing so much and insisting is that

we need to leave, like, right, he says
today, it's like, you know, the, instead

of leaving the 99 to go after the one,
it's like, leaving the one to go after

the 99 because the church has just lost so
many young people and and so like that's

just always a a real a motivation for
me to leave the one or actually as I saw

it referenced you know recently take the
one with you and go out to the 99 yeah

use the buddy system.

Come with me.

We're going to go get the 99.

You know what I mean?

and I think that that approach right
there, first and foremost, taking a

personal interest in the students and
starting there is so important because,

I mean, I'm growing up at a time where,
you know, we would go to a Bible school

in the summer and everything like that,
and it was like, come on, everybody's got

to stand up and everybody's got to dance
and everybody's got to do this, and you

had kids that were going to ham it up,
and then I'll do it in front of everybody,

and then others who that's the most
uncomfortable thing in the world for them.

And I don't want to come back
tomorrow because they made me get

up and dance in front of everybody
or whatever the case might be.

So I think that's so important to meet
them where they're at, so that you can

make a bigger impact in their lives.

And, and as you just said, going
to what is interesting to them.

is such a huge impact, uh, because
then they get that sense of, this

guy really cares for me and is
interested in what I'm interested in.

Okay, let me hear a little bit
more about what he has to say.

Uh, well, well done is
better than well said.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah.

Now, the other interesting piece is, as
our Catholic schools nowadays, we have

students in our schools who are non
Catholic or may not believe in God at all.

And what's your approach to somebody
who may seem unreachable or maybe

expresses zero interest in the faith.

You talk a lot about how do you, how
you meet students where they are.

How do you meet them when they are,
when it can be rather intimidating?

Or how do you break the ice for them
without coming on too strong when they've

not only expressed not an interest, but
maybe even a little bit of pushback at it?

Yeah.

I think so.

those are, I think some of the most
interesting and, uh, students because,

uh, it's, it's almost exciting, like
being a missionary priest and you

kind of, we have kind of ingrained in
us, you know, God has given us this

desire to reach out specifically to
really to those kinds of students.

And again, to take the one that's
maybe already into their faith

and help them as well to see like,
Hey, this is a real opportunity.

And that person needs Jesus
just as much as any of us do.

so I actually get excited and I have
like a passion for reaching out to those

kids that, you know, at first glance
are not going to walk into a church

and they have their prejudices and,
and ideas of what they think the church

teaches and what the church is all about
and who a priest is and who Jesus is.

so again, it's meeting
them where they're at.

And.

Maybe like kind of breaking down those
prejudices, like, and how do you do that?

I think really first is always
on kind of a human level.

You show them that you care.

you know, like right now, Spikeball,
that, you know, game where you gather

around a little Ned and you're,
you know, you're playing that, that

has been a huge kind of gateway

seen you out there
playing with the kids too.

I mean, you're, you're,
you're diving and everything.

It's all on.

Oh yeah, I hold nothing back.

So, yeah, I guess, you know, as
I speak to myself personally,

there's gifts that I feel like
God has given me for that purpose.

So I like music.

You can reach students through that.

I like, you know, sports
and I'm competitive, so I

reach students through that.

and those might be kids that
were involved in faith, but a

lot of them aren't necessarily.

They're just out there
to have a good time.

And sure, if the priest wants
to jump into our game, maybe

it's kind of awkward at first.

But then, you know, although you
realize, oh, I didn't realize

priests could, you could have a
normal conversation with a priest.

I didn't, I didn't realize
priests had a life outside of

praying and going to church.

And I, I had that false idea growing up.

I thought priests were
in churches all day long.

but we want to bring people
into church, and so you have

to go out and, and find them.

And so, We've also just on campus,
because with the campus ministry team

there, given spiritual life team,
organized some events, kind of, in our

minds, catered towards those students.

Again, it's not, they're not coming in
droves, you know, looking for church

teaching, but the idea is that we can
have honest, open discussions, and that

there's no question that's, you know,
out of bounds, so to speak, that they

can't ask like, Hey, I don't understand
why the church teaches us about pro

life issues, or about dating, or about

Yeah, whatever it might be about, like,
Catholic doctrine or, like, obligations

that the faith, you know, teaches.

I don't understand that.

I don't agree with it.

Uh, we, we open up that space and that
forum so that those kind of students,

you know, once you've connected
with them, hopefully then they'll

come and then they feel comfortable.

Exploring these questions, you know,
in a place where they're going to

get the truth about the church, um,
hopefully, because there's so many,

um, you know, opinions out there that
just do not do justice to our amazing

richness of our Catholic tradition.

And I think by you making it a point
to go out to where the kids are, you

know, like you said, the spike ball or
maybe in the cafeteria or, you know,

these events that you're talking about.

You know, I had the chance to interview
Bishop Byrne from, Springfield,

Massachusetts a couple weeks ago.

And he said, I'm the bishop of
a diocese, not behind a desk.

Okay, so I want to be out
with the students and I want

to be out there with them.

And I think your approach within the
school as a chaplain of the school is, is

really one in the same where it's like you
can just sit in your office all day and

wait for kids to come to you, but how much
more powerful is that when you go out and

say, Hey, look, can I join you for lunch?

Hey, can I jump in this game with you?

Hey, can I play this card game with you?

Or whatever the case might be, And then
I think what also is, is big on that is

I'll be willing to bet you that maybe
there's three kids at that table who know

you, but maybe there's two that don't.

And now it's when that
guy leaves, who was that?

What's he all about?

You know, what's going on there?

And then obviously that door opens up
for more of an invitation to come back.

So I think that's huge right there.

Yes, yeah, exactly.

And again, it does take kind of getting
in your comfort zone, because you,

you know, You're, you know, it's a
little bit of a risk, but there was

something that, uh, I will never forget.

It was a, we have, you know, once a
year as legionaries of Christ, we'll get

together with all the other legionaries
and Regnum Christi members, which is

associated with legionaries of Christ.

And everyone doing youth work will
gather and have some meetings,

uh, discussions about how we can.

Continue serving the people that
were called to minister to better.

And there was a panel of high
school students and there was

just kind of a last chance.

Hey, question said, Hey, you have, you
know, we have five more minutes, everyone.

Let's go around and say,
what's one thing you want?

Each of these priests and lay
people and consecrated women,

men and women to walk away with.

And this one girl I'll never forget it.

She said, don't be afraid of us.

And we need, we need mentors, but
we're probably not going to, you know,

run telling you that we need you.

We're not going to like beg you
for help, but we need your help.

Like we don't, we don't have life
figured out as 15, 16, 17 year olds.

So don't be afraid of us.

And so I remember many times, like,
looking at a group of students and,

you know, stereotypes you're looking
at, I'm like, there, there's no way

they're interested in what I have to say.

And then I think in my
head, don't be afraid of us.

And I go directly to that
group of students and I

say, hey, how are you doing?

And those are always
the best conversations.

So.

and probably the ones that leave
the biggest impact on them.

And, and I've seen that too
with, priests that we have at, at

say an elementary school level.

There is there, when you're not used
to being around kids, there's probably

nothing more intimidating than a
high schooler or a kindergartner.

You know what I mean?

Because, because they'll
just tell you how it is.

You know what I mean?

Uh, if you've got something on your
shirt, a kindergartner will tell you.

You got a spot on your shirt or
whatever the case might be and they

just and they do it out of complete
love Uh, but they're just the cutest

things in the world So, uh, they're as
I always say There's nothing probably

more intimidating than this the high
schoolers or the kindergartners Uh for

for people that aren't used to being
around them as as somebody who works

with with the youth What advice do
you have for teachers or principals?

about fostering or and encouraging
vocations with without coming on too

strong because you and I both know the
kids can smell the lie from 10 miles away

okay if you're not sincere about what
it is that that you're bringing to them

they're going to tune you out in about 15
seconds okay it might not take that long

so what advice do you have for for that
teacher out there or or the the principal

the new principal or the principal it's
been for a while you know, obviously we

want to encourage vocations, we want to
encourage because there may be somebody

in each of our schools right now who,
much like you, is, is, gets that spark

in them, that, that interest, that hears
God's calling to them, but if that Little

flame is not fanned to help it grow.

Uh, we don't want it to burn out.

So what advice would you have for somebody
who's working in a Catholic school right

now to be able to foster that vocation?

Because we all know the vocation
could be, you know, something, uh,

going into the seminary or, or a
convent, or it could be a deacon.

It could be, there's a lot of different
roles out there, uh, in religious life.

What advice would you have
for those people out there?

I.

I'm convinced that just the more
we can help, um, all the students,

all the youth to have kind of high
intensity spiritual experiences,

and then you let God do the rest.

So, I brought students to
World Youth Day last summer.

Those kids, those 13 students from
Cardinal Gibbons are never going to

forget that experience of their lives.

They were one of 1.

5 million young people in Portugal
with Pope Francis, seeing that the

faith, the church is not dying out.

It is absolutely not dying
out and it's so exciting.

And then on top of that, you're seeing,
you're meeting a young person who

says, Hey, I'm going to be a priest
or I'm discerning the priest or I'm

discerning being a sister and you're just
exposed to the richness of the church.

Uh, I brought students up to the
seminary, for a high school guys retreat.

you bring them on mission
trips like we're doing.

there's, you can also do local missions.

Not everyone's going to have the money
and the time to travel to Europe, right?

But you can do local mission work.

But.

Kind of exposing them to the church, to
the faith, getting them involved in some

type of giving ministry, um, that awakens
in them something like even being a camp

counselor at a Catholic, you know, retreat
or something, you're sharing your faith.

Gibbons, we do a really good job of that
just because we have so many peer led

retreats that you are leading middle
schoolers or underclassmen sharing

your faith, you come back on fire.

And so that flame is, is fanned, right?

And then And then you have
to accompany them after that.

So I guess not enough to just bring
them on these retreats because

like we all know, there's like,
you know, that you have the, you

know, big emotional high afterwards.

And I love my faith and I love Jesus.

And then very quickly the world can
smother that, you know, and just that our

the noise comes back,

Exactly.

All the noise comes back.

And, and so you have to accompany that
person, help them reflect, you know,

deeper in a deeper way on that experience.

Um, but we do have to kind of get them
out of, yeah, disconnect from their

normal routine to hear that voice
of God and to have that experience,

to let, give God that space to
speak to them in that deeper way.

yeah.

And I, and then you're, you just
really have to trust like every single

person on this planet has a vocation.

So.

Really, just to be genuine, to say, hey,
like, I would love for, you know, 10 guys

this year to say, I want to be a priest,
but I can't enforce the vocation, no one

can enforce the vocation, so, there's
no point in me even trying, but if If

someone does mention, Hey, I'm open to
it, or I'm interested in it, then I will

absolutely make it a point to get him to
a seminary, to experience it, get him to

be a leader at a retreat, to help, you
know, okay, this is what a priest does.

You're sharing your faith, you're
leading others, you're helping them grow.

Is there some resonance there?

Like, like does it, does it fit for you?

And then again, just walk with
them, continue to walk with them.

And then, you know, some,
it happens really quick.

In my, in my case, within two weeks of
meeting the priest and inviting me to the

sermon retreat, I was at the seminary,
other guys, it's years and years.

And so it's, you have to be willing
to patiently walk with, you know, Each

individual person and never, like,
never make it about numbers or, um,

never make it about yourself either.

Obviously.

So,

Absolutely.

And, and, and when sometimes people hear
the call very young, sometimes much later

in life, uh, but, but as what's important
is they hear the call and talk to me

about, uh, the experience with the kids at
World Youth Day, because I know one of the

experiences my wife had the opportunity
to do was to go to World Youth Day, uh,

when it was out in Denver, I believe.

And what's ironic is, is that, a
few years back we were, we were

having dinner with, uh, Father Phil
Hurley, who was a pastor at the time.

And the two of them started talking about
their World Youth Day experience and

realized not only were they both at the
same World Youth Day, But their, their

tracks had taken them to the same spots
to kind of in the same bus caravan, from

the East Coast out to, to, uh, Denver.

And, and so the stories they were
able to share, they, you remember this

guy who, yeah, I remember that guy.

Now did the two of them ever, no.

But because they were there at the
same time and experienced the same

thing, uh, they might as well been
sitting next to each other for, for

the, for the time that they were there.

Talk about what you saw from the
students and what they took from

that experience at World Youth Day.

Oh yeah.

I'd love to.

I, it has been one of the highlights of my
priesthood, to accompany these students.

it was something that I was
convinced of because I went as a

seminarian to Krakow, 2016, and that
experience was just spectacular.

It was so powerful because I
realized you bring young people

there and then God starts to work.

And so every, you know, you're in
conferences, mass, concerts, there's

like a whole festival feel to it, but
there's a lot of downtime where you're

just eating with them, walking with
them, braving the elements with them, you

know, it's just like, it's an adventure.

Every day you're kind of backpacking
through these towns and all

these just conversations start
happening spontaneously about.

God's plan for their lives.

And so, all along the way there in
Poland, uh, in Portugal, sorry, these

students were meeting, uh, other
young people from other countries.

I think that was kind of
the highlight for them.

Uh, obviously being close to the Pope
and just being in the sea of Catholics.

But then you kind of just like little by
little you saw them just, I don't know, on

really like their hearts are set on fire.

And so the fears and like maybe like
self esteem issues or um, worrying about

what other people think just kind of
fade away because what we have in common

is something so deep and profound which
is that we all believe in Jesus Christ.

And so differences didn't matter
anymore and you weren't comparing

yourself to other people which
high schoolers do all the time.

We all do but especially high schoolers.

And so now they're suddenly just,
they're free and they're free to love.

They're free to share their
gifts with each other.

Uh, again, the, the eyeopening
experience of, um, you know, being

with people from so many other
countries, but for the same reason.

And then, honestly, to see God work
in their hearts and their young

hearts because the priesthood came
up and being a missionary came up and

dedicating your life to God, well, was
suddenly on their minds because that's

what they were hearing constantly.

That's the people they were meeting and
they were surrounded by all of a sudden,

you're You know, right next to all the
sisters of Mother Teresa, Missionaries

of Charity, they, they literally, one
night, appeared from behind a bush,

and there were about 30 of them.

And suddenly, I turn around, and all of
our Given students are in a one on one

conversation with a Missionary of Charity.

Where does that ever happen,
besides at a World Youth Day, right?

Like, haha,

it's not happening on Raleigh.

yeah, I know.

So, it was just, there were so
many unexpected, unpredictable

things that occurred.

Almost at every turn, that's hard to
describe, but if you can imagine like

a big music festival or, you know,
something like that, but just everyone

there is Catholic and is open and
sharing their faith and sing, literally

singing and dancing as you walk down
a normal road in downtown Lisbon.

there's just something strange,
like what is it that's making

us so joyful, if not our faith?

And so like, suddenly the things that,
again, the world that smothers that

because you're busy, because it's not
cool, because, the temptations that are

out there, and like, you're wasting time
on your phone, all of that is put to

the side, and it's just a celebration
of what it means to be Catholic.

It is an incredible experience that I'm
going to continue taking students to, so.

Okay, so now let's talk
about the other side of it.

So now, in order to get students
to go, or to be allowed to go, you

have, let's talk to the parents
for a minute, because, oh my god,

where's the next World Youth Day at?

Next summer is a Rome
Jubilee for Youth 2025,

Okay.

and then South Korea will
be the officially next World

Youth Day in 2027, in the

Okay.

So, so now what about the parents?

I don't know.

I don't feel comfortable
sending my kids to this event.

It's overseas.

It's there's all this going on.

What, what do you tell the parents out
there to kind of put their mind at ease?

Um, okay, well, a story comes to mind.

So we were there one evening, we're all,
so you always stay together, you have, you

know, one adult chaperone for every five
or six kids, and you're constantly making,

you know, headcounts, you're traveling
together, you never let a kid off on his

own, but we're walking down this, like,
kind of main drag, and there's all these,

you know, You know, policemen and women
lined up in front of this building and

you just, we just started talking to 'em.

Actually, our, our kids decided they
would put on a dance show for 'em again,

only half in the world, you think.

Um, and, you know, all these policemen
and women are there laughing and clapping

and then you, you know, start, I started
talking to one of them and he was

mentioning to me and this other, You know,
got a young man next to me, about how

it's been the easiest week of their lives.

To think that 1.

5 million young people descend on
the same city for the same event.

And there's no crime.

Like, it's just like the
safest place in the world.

So, of course, with the Pope
coming and, you know, all these

bishops and connoisseurs around
the world and all these young

people, they want it to be safe.

So they go all out with security.

There are metal detectors for
certain events and things like that.

Uh, they're checking bags as
you walk into certain arenas.

But, just the fact that all
those policemen, like, they're,

they're there, they're ready.

But they've been bored
in a good way, right?

All, all week long because it's just
everyone there is, is gathered for,

good, wholesome, spirit filled fun,

we like it when our law
enforcement are bored.

You know what I mean?

That's, that's, that's a good thing.

We like that.

We want that.

So, and we appreciate all of our
law enforcement officers, but I'm

sure they would much rather be
bored as well in terms of crime.

I want to go back to something you
talked about a few minutes ago,

because you talked about the noise.

And sometimes it can be hard
to hear God's calling when

there's so much noise around us.

And I remember Matthew Kelly did
something, On one of his, uh, audio, uh,

tapes or whatever you want to call it.

I'm showing my age there when
I say tapes, but you know,

audio recordings, I should say.

And he just says, with all the
noise, the static that's coming

in and everything like that, it
can be hard to hear the message.

With technology so fast moving,
there's so much that gets missed.

How do you help kids hear the call to just
stop and unplug and just sit in silence?

When they're so used to just
24 7 noise coming at them.

Yeah, you have to, it's tough.

I'm not, I mean.

That's tough, I hope someone one day
figures that out, I think young people

sort of just have to discover for
themselves, and maybe it's just like

providing opportunities where they, they
can, they can experience that contrast.

So, we did a silent retreat.

Um, I know you know that.

And, um, so, and that was an experience
where they were totally disconnected

from their phones, but also the
spiritual exercises experience is

that it's really, it's you and God.

And so the priest is there, you know,
kind of leading you through scripture

and there's this whole, strategy,
spiritual strategy and purpose, purposeful

itinerary, spiritually speaking, you
know, from the beginning to the end.

But really like those students that went
on that retreat, they said this retreat

was not fun, I'm so grateful for it and
they still bring it up months later.

and so they themselves experienced,
okay, the difference between me

being on my phone all day and then
the three days that I was without my

phone, I chose to leave it, you know,
turn it off and leave it in a box and

just the depth of that experience.

And I think that again, we have to kind of
wake them up to the alternative because,

you know, it's It's they're glued to it.

It's also like their security when they're
awkward, when they don't want to talk to

someone, they, you can just lose yourself
in your, in your little virtual world.

And, uh, it's, it's, it's
definitely a fallback.

It's easy to do that.

So, you kind of need to help them lead
them outside of their comfort zone.

And it's really just like show, don't
tell in the sense of like, you have

to let them experience it because
they're just not going to believe it.

They, they don't, they can't believe
that a world without cell phones is

actually better and more advantageous
and beneficial for human, human, yeah,

humankind, you know, so, yeah, I think
kind of being a witness to it, maybe

ourselves as well as adults, that we're
not glued to our phones, that we also

have silence in our lives, that we're
not constantly, Just consuming more

media ourselves, because then we can
be, we're not hypocrites, you know,

we can be faithful, uh, you know, give
testimony to that, witnesses to that.

So, I would say, yeah, providing the
contrast, even if it's for a short

period of time, but forcing it.

Um, kind of, and not, not, uh, going back
on that, you know, so if we're going to

retreat without cell phones, you make
that very clear from the beginning.

Tell them about the advantages of it,
how you're going to form these bonds.

I think that's a big one that they kind of
look, we look in our, through our phones

for connections with people, but they're
very rarely meaningful connections.

And so what they're searching
for is the meaningful connection.

And hopefully we, as adults
mentors, we can help you find it.

You just have to turn that phone off.

And so what they desire, we kind
of know the human heart, hopefully,

and we always can know it better.

And just appeal to the human
heart, appeal to that desire for

connection, for, true friendship.

Yep.

And to have the, the, um, the time and
space to, to think and to, you know,

rest and to, um, away from all the noise.

every heart aches for that.

It's just that it's harder to, to
kind of be in touch with that deeper

desire and yearning that we have.

I, one of the things I found very
interesting was speaking with a friend

of mine this past week, and he's a
very outgoing person, probably one

of the most outgoing people I know.

And, you know, I said, what,
what, how do you do that?

How do you, how do you, you
know, be so outgoing with people?

And, and his answer was one that
was really interesting to me.

He said, I know my story.

I want to hear yours.

Hmm.

if I'm just rattling off stuff
about me, but not getting to know

about you, what does that do?

He said, I know what my story is.

I want to hear what your story is.

And by me doing that, I get to know you.

And he said, he's made friends all
over the world as a result of that.

And I think that's something right
there, that sometimes we have

to be around those two or three
people that we really know well.

And I don't want to branch outside
of this little group or I got to

be on my phone because I got to be
talking and texting with the people

that aren't with me right now.

When there's these meaningful
connections that are just right in

front of us, but we just have to
take the time to learn their story.

Yes.

I, I love that.

It reminded me too of the, I'm
reading, rereading, uh, St.

Francis.

It's, it's, that's the title of
this biography by Chesterton.

And, uh, He said that St.

Francis kind of had, again, like that
kind of charisma that attracted so

many people to leave their comfortable
lives and take on a very austere,

difficult lifestyle as Franciscans.

And how did he do it?

And he said, Chester Dana was
amazing with words, right?

But he, he described that most
people live in a kingdom where they

are, they reign in your kingdom.

So like, it's like, I live in my
world and my world revolves around me.

He described St.

Francis's approach to life as St.

Francis is in a kingdom where everyone
else is royalty and he's the jester.

In a similar way, he is so fascinated
with everyone else around him.

The joy that he has is
like authentic and genuine.

There's a fascination
with the world around him.

So that brings him to desire that
connection and to get to know people.

obviously he's had a way better than
I just did, but it was, it's such a

interesting image that I've, you know,
just the last couple of weeks had in

my mind, uh, because we can, Yeah, make
ourselves out to be the most important

when, and we're just missing out on all
those opportunities, like you mentioned.

Yeah, and I think, as I read in a
book a couple years ago, when we

use the word friend as a verb more
than a noun, uh, that's problematic.

Uh, on Facebook, we, we, I friended you.

I, I, you know, that's a verb, okay?

Uh, when you're friends with
somebody, it should be a noun, and

it should be a personal connection.

I, I don't care who you are, but
I see people on Facebook with

two and three thousand friends.

I don't care who you are.

They probably don't know two or
three thousand people, so it's those,

it's those meaningful connections,
I think, that are just so deep.

You, you've worked with youth,
not only, uh, here in Raleigh,

but all over the world.

What's something that you've learned?

Your, your, uh, something that you
would want to share With everybody

out there that's listening to
this, in working with the youth,

that may surprise people to know.

I've just sensed and realized that
young people are thirsty for the

truth, and I think that's surprising.

Maybe it's not, but I think it's
surprising because You just hear so

much, negativity, like when it's like
comes to young people today, they're

all lost and they're all leaving
the church and no one cares anymore.

And the church has to get with the times
and kind of in a sense that like, you

know, it's, we've already lost the battle.

And I just think we've kind of
stopped fighting the battle.

And, we have to get the
narrative out there.

That's from Christ and from the
good news from the gospel and keep

sharing that narrative because as
much as we think they don't care,

it's just because they don't hear it.

The truth of it.

And so.

They are very thirsty, and that's why,
I'm so encouraged every day as I walk

through those doors of the school,
because Again, we know how God made us.

We, he made every human person in his
image and likeness for him to know him,

love him, and then want to serve him.

So, there's no exception to that.

People might be turned off
because of bad experiences.

Uh, because again, because
of all the noise, they just,

they're deaf to that voice.

so we have every reason to be
hopeful, that if we just can find a

way to communicate in an authentic.

way, that the kids are going to,
they desire it and they're, they're

going to accept it and they're
going to be transformed by it.

I just witnessed that thirst all the time.

And, and the, the interesting part is,
is that I think we've had six people come

into the church this year at Gibbons.

And where does that come from?

Like you're in high school, you
should, your mind, like we think, I

think as adults is on parties, on,
you know, girlfriends, boyfriends, on.

success in college and career.

How is it that these six students,
I think it's at least six, have come

and like, are making, actually taking
those steps to go into RCIA, are

getting baptized and confirmed in
the church, or want to receive the

sacraments, if there's not that thirst
deep down, that profound thirst that

when it's just, for so many years, like
meeting junk and garbage that's out

there in the And it's not satisfied.

It eventually is going to have to
turn to God and say, like, I think

I'm missing out on, on what's true
and truly satisfying and fulfilling.

so yeah, we have, we
have a lot of hope there.

Um, John Paul II in, um, one of his
documents, I remember him saying

that, uh, we as missionaries,
and that's all of us because as

Catholics, the church is a mission.

we have to trust that the Holy Spirit.

is already there before we arrive
at that doorstep or arrive at that

person to talk to that conversation,
has already prepared the way.

And so as you knock on that door of
that person's heart and you're going to

bring that conversation, you're going
to try to invite them to your activity

or to youth group or to whatever it is.

Just trust and know that the Holy
Spirit has already been there.

He's already prepared that terrain
for you then for that seed to fall.

they're thirsty.

And I think that's just
all about surrendering.

Uh, and just knowing that, uh, I
always say, God has a plan, and

his plan will be much better than
anything I could ever come up with.

And so, just trusting in, in what
God has in store for us, and just

knowing that, boy, when you see the,
the end product, boy, you're gonna be,

You're going to be blown away by it.

And so, uh, well, I can't thank
you enough for taking the time

today to sit down with me.

I've, I've so enjoyed this conversation
and, and getting to know you.

And I know that the, the ministry
work that you're doing at Cardinal

Gibbons is absolutely outstanding
and seeing a lot of hearts.

Touched and students growing in their
faith and, uh, that that can only be

kudos to you for that and the entire
team at Cardinal Gibbons and so, please

know you're all will be in my prayers
for continued success and you have my

support if you need anything at any point.

Thank you, John.

It's been a pleasure as well having
this conversation with you and sharing

these ideas and kind of brainstorming
a little bit together how to continue

reaching out to our young people.

So thanks for the invitation.

Absolutely.

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