The Catholic School Leaders Podcast

8 Jamie Lesho
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[00:00:00] Okay, this is the podcast with Jamie Leshow on faculty engagement and support. Welcome to the Catholic School Leaders Podcast. My name is John Mahalio, your host, president and founder of Elementary Advancement Solutions. Today it is an exciting day for me. When you talk to folks in the Diocese of William and Charleston, one name that really stands out and one name that a lot of folks up there really, really admire is Jamie Lesho.

And it's my pleasure to have Jamie as my guest today. He's currently the principal at St. Paul Catholic School in Weirton, West Virginia. He served as principal of St. Paul for 10 years from 2003 to 2014, before becoming the principal of Madonna High School for four years. After four years, he returned to St.

Paul Catholic School, where he's currently the principal today. In his time as principal, his enrollment has increased by 50%. He's led the installation of a new playground, expanded the nutrition [00:01:00] program, and saw the creation of several tuition endowments, also infusing increased technology into the curriculum.

Prior to his role, he taught history in St. Paul's. And has coached wrestling and football. He and his wife, Julie, are huge animal lovers, and they reside with their dog, Jerry. Jamie! Welcome to the podcast!

thank you. Thank you for having me.

Absolutely. So let me tell you something. When you talk to anybody in, weird West Virginia, there's a couple of things that are very clear. Number one, you've got a great school down in St. Paul's. it is a gem. If you've never had the chance to visit St. Paul's, wonderful, wonderful school and a wonderful community.

It's a great place to send your kids. There's always a lot of things happening when I look at your social media feeds and just so much happiness in the building. But I think some of the happiest folks inside of your building are your faculty and staff. Jamie, what's the secret sauce? What is going on at St.

Paul's that makes it such a happy place to work?

a lot of it [00:02:00] is, you know, obviously climate and culture. Those two things are very important to have in a school, let alone in a Catholic school is climate and culture. But also, you know, the faculty gets along so well. They do things together. I don't have to poke and prod for meetings. They want to get together.

They want to collaborate. It makes my life easier when I go to a meeting and they're already discussing things and they're already, you know, our PLCs and they're already halfway done with the meeting before I even get in there because they walk down the hall and talk to each other. having roughly 150 kids in Pre K 6, get to know all your teachers pretty well and what their needs are.

I try to go in their rooms every day. I try to keep them, interested in what they're doing and, and what they're trying to teach and get in the classroom and observe them. I make sure that I talk to them. They need anything, want anything, do anything I can do to help. and everyone here loves kids and buys into the mission of St.

Paul [00:03:00] school.

And that's something I think is very obvious. When you just look at what's going on there, like I said, I mentioned the social media feeds before. Always your teachers are always smiling.

They're smiling when they're around the kids. They're smiling when they're around each other. I mean, it just, it just, there's happiness.

There's joy in the photos right there that you see from a distance. And having somebody who's been on your campus, I can tell you that that's something that really comes through.

when you have teachers that love to teach makes. Life easier to, I don't have to struggle with that part. they want to be here. They want to be involved in the kids. They want to do things. Yeah,

and I think that's the thing right there is, is that, you know, when you have a vacancy that's posted, for example, for a position, you tend to fill up pretty quickly. And I noticed one of the things I love about your teachers is you have a lot of teachers who are currently teaching there, yourself included, who went to St.

Paul's. You have folks there that alumni of St. Paul's. How do you create, you mentioned this culture before, how do you [00:04:00] create this culture of trust amongst your community that makes so many people want to come there and want to work there at St. Paul's?

that's a great question. You know, just about half of our faculty and staff. Um, I think they love the school. I, I mean, it's, it's hard to, to place words on what it is because it's something that's just ingrained here. They want to come back. They want to be part of it. They want to continue the legacy of it.

And, you know, I have been blessed with, being fairly easy to find teachers in this day and age when it's not so easy to do. our field is getting a little thin with teachers especially with, you know, and, and our pay is not what counties are paying and that kind of stuff, but the wanting to be here and the love of being here is huge.

And I, I think part of this, I don't put a lot of pressure on my teachers. You know, our test scores are good. I, I try to give them what they need. I don't [00:05:00] load them down with more and more stuff that you hear a lot of just keep adding more and stuff to their. Workload. Hey, you're doing this now. You're doing that now.

And, you know, here's a couple, more students in your class and oh, some of them have these huge long IEPs and good luck. pretty much with all my faculty, I discuss, kids we're taking and kids that are coming into the school, especially with hope. Now, the hope scholarship available, we're starting to see even more of an influx of. Students wanting to come to the schools.

And so you mentioned before about the, not wanting to load them up with extra things, because everybody has their breaking point of like, hey, we can only do so much,

okay? How do you determine where those priorities are in terms of, what's the, the big rocks, I guess, so to speak, that you ask your faculty to take on?

I mean, obviously there's those classroom duties. but you know, obviously, as school is vibrant as yours, there's, activities that want to go on. How do you prioritize what those things are that you want to ask them to take on? And, and those things you kind of say, yeah, we'll get to that later.

That's really not a priority right [00:06:00] now.

I try to do it on what I would be doing in the classroom. I try to make it so it's, I'll, I could do it in the classroom, they could do it in the classroom. I don't ask them to do anything that I wouldn't do myself in the classroom and they know that and they respect that part of me. I think that's probably it.

And prioritizing is just communicating with them and knowing your faculty and knowing you can start to say, this teacher is, struggling with some students.

Yeah, and, and, and you mentioned before, a lot of turnover in the field of education

right now. A lot of turnover, unfortunately. And each year, people are leaving. People are having trouble finding, uh, people to fill those vacancies right now. it's just everywhere. Then there's St. Paul's. What have you kind of done, and you mentioned a little bit here, but I guess I'll ask a little bit more, what have you done to create that work setting that makes it great for your faculty to be?

Because then that trickles down to the kids, and at the end of the day, that's what it's all about, is all about our students. So what are some of the things maybe that you do, because [00:07:00] I think that the challenge is, There's a difference between giving a perk and creating a great culture,

and so where does that fine line between say, okay, I'm gonna give our folks perk with this, but this is something that we're gonna do to make sure that the culture is what we need it to be.

that's kind of tough to, to nail on, you know what I mean? Because there's so many, there's so many factors in that, that, are part of that. evolving door it's hard because I don't have that too much. If I ask my teacher to do something, they do it. They're, they're not. you know, I'm sure they have their breaking points and everything, but I try to keep that far off in the distance that I can, when they need help, I'm there, you know, but they lean on each other more than they lean on the administration I guess hiring people that fit the mold that I'm looking for, more than qualifications, if that makes any sense.

buying into what I'm trying to establish, buying into my mission, or the school's mission for that fact. and what we're trying to accomplish is, treating all the kids with love [00:08:00] and respect.

a quote that I usually, that I tell all my teachers before we even begin interviews is, you know, if you want to teach young people, you first love them all equally. and that's pretty much what everyone does in this building, from the custodians up through kitchen help to staff to teachers, aides, whatever.

I think that's a big part of it. And you see it when you, like you said earlier, you feel it when you walk through the building.

Yeah, I mean, I feel it immediately. I mean, as

soon as you walk in the main doors of that school. And I think it's something really interesting right there because a lot of folks out there when they hear, well, our teachers are gonna lean on each other. They think, uh oh, does that mean like maybe there's things stirring or things like that?

but in this instance, that's a positive.

To me, you know, when your teachers can lean on each other, and there's that common mission and there's that common vision that we're all in this together, you want to see that

And I think that says something right there about creating that culture. And your teacher involvement, when you do [00:09:00] have people that are coming on board and new employees or things like that, what involvement do you have with your faculty to, I guess, kind of show those new folks this is the way we do things here and to help it create that great culture that you're looking for?

Yeah, I mean, I have, some veteran teachers here that are great mentors. that are always open door policy as myself and help teachers with that beginning of first year teacher that has trouble with the classroom management skills that, you know, is always the biggest thing and, they're not afraid to say, do you need some help?

You need some advice and all new teachers here are always willing to accept that because they know they want to learn the system here and be part of it.

And how do you empower those folks to do that? Because, you know, obviously that's got to be something that, you could have a teacher say, I don't really want to step on Jamie's toes here on this one. That's just, that's something that comes from you empowering them to be able to have those conversations.

yes. And, you [00:10:00] know, I am blessed with having, some seasoned teachers and, teachers that, for whatever reason, have qualifications to be administrators and are not doing it and want to stay in the classroom because of administrators is this day and age. You know, some special ed teachers that did in the county for a while and they're like, I'm good.

I'm going to, I think I'm going to come to a Catholic school now. So, I think that makes it easier for me and they have that experience where they know how to, to not push a teacher and not telling a teacher what to do they always run the stuff through me first before they relay it to it, teacher.

my, my mentories are usually very open with me and say, Hey, we need to do something with that. So it always comes from me, but it's coming from them.

Yeah, and that creates a safe environment. I mean, that creates a safe, I guess the way to hopefully cut things off before they become a major issue, but also to recognize the things that are going really well because Some of the, our new teachers who [00:11:00] are coming in, maybe bring some new ideas that maybe we haven't seen before, and our teachers are learning from them.

And that creates, again, a great culture because it says, hey, I can contribute to this school community right now. I don't have to wait around for a couple of years before I'm able to be part of it.

exactly. And that goes back to, some of the hiring strategies that I use when I interview teachers, like fitting into the building, you can have some qualified teachers and they just don't fit into what you're trying to establish or they don't, always refer to them as bankers, punch in at 7 and punch out at 230, and and that's it, they're not staying here after, they're not watching the kids, they're not doing anything extra, they're doing exactly what they do, I don't want that in my building, I want the teachers that go to all our fundraisers, that go to our sporting events, that go show up for kids that are cheering or playing volleyball or basketball or whatever, and they go to those, and they, celebrate the kids, as you can see on our social [00:12:00] media,

and and I think that's something right there that the, the kids having the teachers involved outside of school. we'll also recognize, as you said before, that everybody's got their limits, okay? and I think that's a big piece right there, is having it, so you just said the, the banker's hours at 7, 7

o'clock, 2. the doors are open, and I'm gone, I'm in my car, out the door, uh, before, you know, the, the last kid is off your campus. What is it that makes those teachers, because, hey, everybody's only got 24 hours in a day, okay? And a lot of folks may have families at home, they may have other commitments that they have to do, and yet they make time for that.

And I think the two part question I would have for you is, number one, how do you instill that? But then number two, what's the payoff for your school as a whole, as a result of that investment of time from your faculty?

I think first off is, I think when I'm asking to do something or they [00:13:00] know something needs to be done like that, they do it because I don't ask them to do a whole lot of. Silliness. I don't know a better word than silliness. If I'm calling a meeting after school, it's something, it's got teeth to it.

There's a reason for it. And it's going to be an hour, it's going to be a half hour, this one may be 15 minutes. and I also let teachers, hey, my kid's got soccer, I gotta run up to, to Madonna and get my kid. Go ahead, I'll catch you up tomorrow. So it's a lot of give and take. You know, I make sure we play that game where, you know, I know sometimes you got to go pick up the husband or wife and pick up kids and get my kid on a bus and all that, not getting your hair done or nails done, but,

you know,

and when I ask for something, they know, hey, you know what, Mr.

Lesher is asking for something, or, hey, we should go to this game, we're going to go because, He lets us do sometimes if I need to get out early. Hey, I got to run to the bank and get some money and you know, whatever it is, I'm pretty open with it [00:14:00] because I know what time is valuable to people and obviously, you know, as much as we are a school and education family comes first, you know, we have a lot of, teachers here that their kids go to school here, which, you know, is awesome, but kids are sick,

they got to stay home and I, you know, you got to do what you got to do.

You got to take care of your kids.

Absolutely. And, I think on the, on the flip side of that, that investment of time. from those teachers. and I think that's the thing that sometimes folks miss is that payoff

of what it builds in terms of that community culture is so big. To see the kids at a soccer game or to see the kids at a, I don't know, after school science fair or things like that.

That payoff and what it brings to your community long term is huge.

yes. you know, I always around with them, like, you don't have to stay for the whole game, show up, stay for the first quarter, first half, first period, whatever it is, and then go hang out with your family, but I have, knock on wood, I have [00:15:00] no with them being at fundraisers, going to the kids events, being involved, even if it's not a school stuff, 4 H club, if they're doing other things outside of the school, we make sure they're recognized here.

And that's huge. And you mentioned before about the interview process. You want to make sure that when you're interviewing, that this is going to be a fit for your building. What are some things that you do during your interview process to, I guess, kind of kick the tires to see, is this going to be somebody that Make our school a better place is going to make it the best version of itself.

usually in the first few minutes when they're talking to you, you can pretty much read what they're going to do and how they're going to do it and their body language when you start bringing up, Hey, you know, we are a Catholic school and we do a lot of things outside of school, fundraisers and sporting events and, you know, and you could see in their face or their body language where, they're, they're accepting to it, or they're already, mind's already spinning on how I can, how I can get out of [00:16:00] this.

How do I say no to this

job quickly? You know? And I think that's huge right there because then you're laying out the expectations that you have, which then allows you to create that culture that you're seeking. And by the time they get there for the first day of your teacher work days, or whatever the

case might be, it's already ingrained in them what

your expectations are.

And like, I think some of my interview is kind of backwards. I tell them a lot about the school and instead of saying, what do you do? I say, here's what we do and you're already, that way I know if you're, if you are, if there's a chance for you to buy into this or not. So, I think that strategy is 1 that has served me pretty well is, you know, laying it out on the line.

This is what we do. I make sure it's open book. I'm not hiding anything. I'm not trying to to see because you know, there's sometimes there's super qualified people that come in and they just don't fit what we're trying to do here.

Yeah, and that's important. By putting it out there, it says this is an important piece [00:17:00] of

our school. This is an important piece of what we expect there. You talked earlier about, your faculty, and you mentioned that you have, some folks that have been there for a while. Some folks that have worked with you for more than a couple of years and I think one of the risks that comes with that is is complacency and you don't have that at your school.

don't see that from your school at all. How do you keep things fresh for those teachers that have been there for a few years? for your veteran employees. How do you keep it, things fresh and keep things going with them and keeping them excited about coming to school each and every day?

well, I think we've been fortunate on, when we had to hire somebody, it has been a new teacher or a year or two experience. So, you know, like you said earlier, when you have that fresh person out of college, they could bring new perspectives to things and new ideas and. You know, all these, things that they add to the classroom, the classroom of sites that we've never heard of, or a teacher that's been there for 20 years, and, oh wow, I've never heard of that site, and you can find [00:18:00] anything on it, and, you know, that is part of it, and I think, there's, I don't give them much time to get complacent. I'm always trying to add new things and change things up and, we added a STEM lab this year and we added, partial study hall type thing in there and, I think change is important and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, I'm a big believer of change.

To away from complacency is keep changing it up and, you know, obviously keeping the teachers involved in that and them coming up with ideas on how we can improve every year makes it that they're buying into it so they don't become complacent.

you do see a little more of that at the high school level.

If I go back a couple years to my high school, you do see that a little more at the high school level, the teachers that have been teaching science or math for 20 years and they have, this is the style they use and this is what they're doing and, elementary, the young kids kind of keep it from getting complacent.[00:19:00]

Oh, absolutely. Now you mentioned that you had spent time at the high school and you've also been in the K through 8, pre K through 8 school. And I think one of the things that was always great when you would ask teachers sometimes to to change a grade level Okay, and oftentimes when I would do that and look at that it was listen, you're going from this grade to this grade You know what they're not coming in with Or you're going from this grade to this grade because you know what they're leaving with and where you can you know, start off from.

So whenever you're gonna, you know, make a change, you want to know where they're going or where they're coming from.

You're somebody who's done both a high school and you've done an elementary school. Tell me something that's, I guess the biggest 8 schools that they can do to prepare students for high schools.

And likewise, the biggest thing a high school can do to support its feeder schools.

I think the elementary to high school is. with the 7th [00:20:00] and 8th grade, especially 8th grade, that junior, which would be technically the junior high area is. Really start making them accountable for work and on time and turning things in and properly having, deadlines and things like that.

That's probably the biggest thing that we saw is the elementaries are always. Teachers are always, you could turn in tomorrow and that kind of stuff. And then when they get to high school, some teachers don't accept it anymore. So you

missed a deadline.

Good

luck.

it's kind of changed for us a little bit in our area, because now.

the 7th and 8th grade moved up to Madonna, so Madonna is now 7th through 12th, so we have 6th graders here, and the change has been a little more difficult for us, because now the 6th grader is not really ready for high school, but they're getting tossed into a high school atmosphere. so that's been a little bit more of a struggle for us trying to get our [00:21:00] 6th graders prepared for 7th grade.

academically, they are, but socially, it was 1 thing that I don't think we really took an account when we were talking about doing this was. sixth graders going to seventh grade that are still carrying lunch boxes. And then you have high school kids with beards that are

walking down, you know, for beards.

And, you know, I don't think we were ready for that kind of experience. we thought of a ton of things and the basic thing was. Walking down the hall and that, that kid singing, Oh my gosh, guy has a beard.

And I think that 6th to 7th grade is a huge, like when I taught, the growth that I saw between the 6th grader was night and day.

just in terms of maturity, in terms of things they were able to handle.

I as a teacher saw just a tremendous, tremendous growth year between 6th and 7th grade.

Especially those students. That I may have had in 6th grade that I now had again in 7th grade, it was a night and day difference between the

two.

Yes. Yes. Yeah, [00:22:00] absolutely. And, we are still going through some of that stuff here and we've been working on fixing some of those, simple things that, that we kind of overlooked when we made that move. but back to your question, the high school to elementary is, the high school be super involved with the elementary schools, the high school visits the elementary schools at least twice a month.

Whether we go up there to do something, or they come down here and read, or do a STEM lab with them, or, whatever it may be, serve lunch, we have them involved in the school. they come down and talk about sports to our kids. We let our sixth graders wear Madonna hoodies to help them to get involved in the school already to transition up to Madonna.

I think having a relationship with the elementary schools, the kids. Having teachers is helpful, but not like having the [00:23:00] kids come down and these kids look up to those, those high schoolers and they come down here and read to them and, dress up as Dr. Seuss or whatever it is they come down and do, at the time, it, it, it's, it's huge for them and they play outside kickball with them and it's just, it means a lot to those kids that come down here and show that they are important and I want to go up to Madonna and, and continue my Catholic education.

And I think what that also does is for your kids, that are 3rd grade, 4th grade, 5th grade, 6th grade, they look at those high school kids and say, someday that's going to be me, and I'm going to have that opportunity to come back.

To give back to this community.

when you see those kids on your campus playing kickball and being the star of the

show, They want that,

and they look forward to when they can have that opportunity to come back and give back.

There's nobody out there that doesn't like that.

yes, yes, and this year was the first year we did our 5th and 6th grade basketball [00:24:00] actually played a game before the high school game

and then got to walk the high school kids, you would have thought it was, the NBA coming, you know what I mean? it was really good to do. It was really good to do.

Yeah, and I think that's something that, that when we look at our Catholic schools, and they enter our Catholic schools in preschool, you know, the, the vision should be that those kids enter in preschool. What are we going to do to make sure these kids graduate in 12th grade from a Catholic school? Now, I recognize there's some communities out there that your school may only go up to 6th grade or 8th grade or whatever the case might be.

You don't have a Catholic high school in your community, but what is it, how are we partnering with those schools within our community to make sure that streamline? is just easy peasy for for everybody involved and I think that's something that up in Weirton that the schools in Weirton Do great job with partnering and

and working together cohesively You want to talk about that just real quick

about just how you work together with the other because sometimes there's that level of competition [00:25:00] We say well, I don't want to work too closely because we're fighting for the same group of kids But I find that with with the schools in Weirton everybody works very cohesively together and, for the, good of the whole.

correct. We have, over the course of the last probably five years or so, the three schools, there's another elementary school up on the hill and then a high school, they have, we all have worked well together, us and St. Joe's, we are, it is competitive. We, but we also know that, you know what, if it's not fitting down here, I'd rather you go to St.

Joe's and go public. I'd rather keep you in my system. and run all the way through 12th grade, then lose you to public school. so I think that's a big part. I think us trying to get on the same pages and, you know, over the course of these next three years, the three schools are working on a, plan that Our tuitions will all be the same, so you would know, walking into mine or the other elementary school, Pre 3 I'm paying this, elementary I'm paying this, middle school, junior [00:26:00] high, high school, you know all your years, what it's going to cost you to, to go through the system.

overlapping some things, trying to get more of the high school down here. I think it's easy when all three schools work together and they have administration that work together, you know, like you said, sometimes it's, it's a battle of enrollment. we don't see it like that. We see it as, you know, we want to get our kids to Madonna High School.

that's our goal.

And when one of you wins, everybody wins

when you, when you approach it that way. And, and that's when you have that shared vision, that shared culture, that's taking place, that, that just grows Catholic education everywhere.

Well, Jamie, I want to say thank you so much for your time today. If you, uh, have the opportunity to check out, St.

Paul's in, in Weirton, it's a great school. It's a great community to be part of. all three schools up there, St. Paul, St. Joe's, and Madonna, they're all great schools. I can tell you that firsthand. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today, Jamie, and I appreciate all the work that you're doing.

Absolutely. Thanks for having me. [00:27:00] Appreciate it.

Alright.