The Catholic School Leaders Podcast

12 Tim Breslin
===

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Catholic School Leaders Podcast. My name is John Mahalio, your host, CEO, and president of Elementary Advancement Solutions. With me today is somebody that I've known for quite a few years, and somebody that we connected over a common interest in advancement. His name is Tim Breslin.

He's the senior development director at Duke University. He's served in this role for nine years. Before this, he was the Executive Director for Stewardship and Advancement at the Diocese of Raleigh and Catholic Charities for five years. He's worked as a Director of Development at Duke Catholic Center, the Director of Advancement for Malden Catholic High School outside of Boston, And he started development at his alma mater, Salesmanium, Tim, am I pronouncing that right here?

Salesianum. Salesianum School in Wilmington, Delaware. So my apologies to Salesianum High School in Wilmington. He holds a communications [00:01:00] degree from the University of Delaware. and is currently getting his Master's in Organizational Leadership from Gonzaga University. He and his wife, Tanya, live in Fuquay, Verena in North Carolina with their three children.

Tim, welcome to the podcast! Thank

you, John. You would not be the first one to have gotten caught up on Salesianum's name. A little Latin for you. The House of Sales. St. Francis of Sales is who it's named after.

All right, see, now I'm gonna have to do some Google searching today to see what this school is all about now.

So, they're getting some free publicity right there for you, from you today, right? Love it. Excellent. Well, Tim, you and I met what seems like forever ago, and I know we, connected over this advancement concept because, and I know you've said this several times, you either, you get it, okay? And I think that's the thing because there's a lot of different perspectives.

When we're talking about advancement, the first is that school that's really just kind of contemplating this. Yeah, maybe we should do this, but i'm not quite sure if we can afford to do it. I'm, not sure if I see the benefits. [00:02:00] The second one is really that school that has gotten their advancement efforts off the ground.

Maybe the plane is climbing, gaining altitude and trying to navigate through this beginning. And then that third one is the plane that is really in cruising altitude and picking up speed. So we're going to talk a little bit about each of those today. So I hope this will be something that benefits you as a school, your school, no matter where you are in this process.

So Tim, we talk about getting it as it pertains to the importance of advancement work at schools. Tell us a little bit about what do you say to that principal or pastor out there? Who's intrigued with this idea, but they really have no idea where to start.

Yeah. Great question, John. So long as they are looking at it, they realize it has an impact, right?

They see others having success with it. they're raising money, much needed funds to support their mission. And so. there is a level of success now that they want to attain. They hopefully will understand that level of success wasn't attained on day one, [00:03:00] right?

And so as long as they understand that there is a need for it they, their school needs to thrive and grow through funds like this is an important first step, so you don't want to discount that and you know, leadership is important and so they have to understand that it's, it is going to be Perhaps a two year, three year window before you're breaking even and so, you know, hopefully that leadership is in place to really understand it and to be able to say we are doing this and take those first steps of how to get off the grounds.

And I think

you hit it, you hit it where it hit it. It doesn't just, it's not a scratch off lotto ticket, okay? You don't just start it today and tomorrow you have a four million dollar endowment. That just, that's not a realistic piece of, it's an investment in your school.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, hopefully people didn't hear, that I work at Duke university and immediately click this off and say, well, that, that doesn't pertain, Duke university raises a ton of money every year and our, we have a lot of people, but we started somewhere [00:04:00] as well, more than a hundred years ago, we were a little farmhouse out a couple hours west of Durham.

And so it, it started somewhere. for everyone. And so that leadership of saying we're going to do it. And I think an important first step going to your original question is to figure out what is the best way to start. Obviously, if you can, if you go out as a leader and just announce we're hiring and it is news to everyone involved at the school or the parish, That is a poor first step, you know, to have your leadership involved in the decision that we are doing this and this is why you have people in your community that needs to be bought in, but also can perhaps fund the start of this.

And so, they could perhaps put up some early funds to, to get it going. And so it isn't a drain on, oh, am I going to hire a teacher or am I going to hire a advancement person that they [00:05:00] can really fund the start of it and get it going.

and I think one of the things too, is You know, this does, as we've mentioned, this takes time, okay?

When we're talking about moving toward this idea of advancement, and we've already said, you know, we know that sometimes it's going to be, hey, we can do this as a part time role to start, or sometimes we can do this as a full time advancement director to start. As I said, it's not a scratch off lotto.

In 28 days, you're not going to have 10 I think the biggest things you can do over those first months is to really make that commitment to a culture of giving. And I think you kind of just briefly touched on that, but I'm thinking about parents, I'm thinking about your faculty, I'm thinking about your alumni that, that effort to communicate to them what the goals are, this piece of the puzzle.

And it has to be an all in effort. You can't do it like, well, we're kind of doing a little bit of it. What would you say in terms of that school that's just starting out with this, those communication pieces to your teachers because they see a new advancement officer and they go, Well, if this person wasn't here, I'd be getting paid [00:06:00] more money.

Or the parachute, the parents are going, we're paying tuition and this is going through this. What do you say to those folks to get them to really buy into this concept so they can see the big picture of how this benefits the school moving forward?

Yeah, a key thing there, John. I think you really need to involve them in it from the start.

And so again if this is a surprise to your faculty that you're hiring someone, they will immediately dismiss it and say, and you'll have the naysayers right off the top. So this is something that hopefully you are talking about. To them and with them in faculty meetings having the staff member, whether it's 20 hours a week or, you know, with them at meetings.

And so they get to see that person and interact with that person and learn why. You also have some parents who might be scared. As you started to talk about, we're not doing the brownie sale anymore that they might be. Well, I, you know, I've done this for 10 years already with my kids and yes [00:07:00] you're taking away the 250 that I raised for you from my brownie sales.

And, you know, there's ways if you proactively do it too, that there. They're going to really witness and to be not afraid of what is going to come and can be a part of it. And so the more upfront work you can do in setting that culture, the more important it is. it's always tougher when you have parents in the carpool pickup line or others.

You know, bad mouthing something even before it starts, so, get them involved early.

And I think to the teachers and your faculty, their investment in this can speak volumes. Because, you know, as we've talked about when we do an annual fund if you can say to your parents, 100 percent of our teachers support this and they contributed to this annual fund.

It speaks volumes right there. So that teacher buy in and that faculty buy in is huge to make a transition to this culture of giving.

Absolutely. And that is a great thing. If you [00:08:00] get everyone to give some amount, that is perfect to be able to say we have a hundred percent participation, but even more so, you want people who, when they're at home or in church on Sunday or wherever, they see people at the grocery store and they get asked about something to be physically supportive of it and not just give a 1 token gift.

That's fine if that's financially what they can do but you really want them to to just with their whole, you know, mind and body being supportive or understanding of this. And so that is an important step. Now you,

talked before, and I know we jokingly say about the brownie sales, okay?

But every school has something that is that sacred cow out there that you know, hey, we do this every year and we make 32 off of it or whatever the case might be. But it's theirs, and there's a lot of pride to it. They're used to those wrapping paper sales. They're used to selling those candy bars that are out there that, I don't know, whether you want or don't want.

The coupon book. So, you just insert your own thing, your other events that, and they let the school organizations, a [00:09:00] parent organization, a PTO, or a PTA, or a PSO, insert your abbreviation there for it. and they kind of use these as the fundraising wing of the school. Okay, and this can lead to parents being reluctant to get involved because they're not real crazy about asking people for money.

Can you talk about how you see parent organizations use in the schools existing to support the Office of Advancement? And they don't necessarily have to be fundraising department for the school. They can be more of friend raisers in the school. I know this is a big culture shift for a lot of schools out there.

There's sensitive conversations out there and things like that. How would you shift those parent organizations to that friend raised zone?

Yeah, there's, as you noted, John, there are tons of aspects of development and, or advancements. And, a lot of them are not asking for anything. So, there are ways to be involved.

If someone does want to ask, that's fine. You probably don't want them asking, you know, if they [00:10:00] have any reluctance, but there's many things you can do. There's identification that, you know, that's an early thing that you need. Who in your community can consider such a gift? You know, the thank you of things are important.

There are, Probably some kids who are not going on full tuition already to your school. You know, is there, should there be a scholarship reception? Perhaps that person is organizing a little breakfast to have. Early donors or even some parishioner leaders into the school so they can see front and up close with a great little small event to meet some of the kids who are recipients, some of your great students.

And so there are different roles. And I would also note that it's okay to have a fundraising event. That can be a part of it, the community building is probably just as much a part of, even if an event makes money, so there, it [00:11:00] doesn't, you don't have to get rid of. every single thing, but I would say that any sales thing or restaurant nights and you know, those are done to buy the companies to make money for them.

And you are their marketing arm and they'll give you a you know, the 10 percent cut or something like that. But the time you put into it, even galas and golf outings and things, you know, it can be a ton of work for a relatively small. investment back. And so the community aspect, if you do one of those has to be a large part of that and not just the focus on the fundraising part of it and to bring the community together.

So there are still things that they can get involved with, but you definitely can't have them you know, that one volunteer deciding what you can and cannot do. Just like you would not let that one volunteer decide, academic things in your school. So, you know, [00:12:00] you want to involve them and get them going in the right direction that you can all get on board with.

Well, and, to your point too, I always would say whenever you would have a restaurant night, okay. the restaurant nights to me are community building events. Okay. Because you're not going to make your budget. making a couple hundred dollars off of a Chick fil a or a McDonald's or whatever.

And it's a great community event. It's a great night to bring people together, to bring families together. But at the end of the night, even on the best case scenario, Chick fil percent and you get 15. Okay. So, so call that for what it is. It's a community building event. It's a restaurant night.

And yes, you're going to make a couple of dollars off of it, but you're not going to make your budget for the whole year off of 15 percent of one night. And

I would really caution on having those as a role at all, because the problem with them is they can be distracting to what, you know, what is the purpose of it.

So, I would not. You know, if you do a one of those, I, and I would not really say [00:13:00] for fundraising purposes, that is a fundraiser. And so if you are going to say it is a community building event, then you have to really be up front and say this is a community building event, because when you start an annual fund, which can be a you know, very much helpful to your budget and really a backbone to your efforts, they, you don't want someone to say, well, I went to the Chick fil A night and I bought my spicy chicken sandwich and my waffle fries, drink for 10 bucks, and you got a buck 50 from that.

That, that is not what we need. As you said, it's not gonna go towards, really make a dent in the budget. And so, you don't want those to be seen as fundraising events.

Now and just call it what they are. You know, community events are and I think you hit the nail on the head too.

Anything you do should build community. Okay if there's, no matter what your school is doing, It should be building community, and in some instances, we are going to raise some money for this type of thing. But if the building of [00:14:00] community is not at the heart of everything that we're doing, then we have to question why we're doing such a thing.

So schools out there that are really just considering getting started on this, we're looking to move toward advancement. What are some characteristics that you might say to a principal or a pastor out there who's considering looking at bringing somebody on for advancement? What would the characteristics be that, that person should possess or that you would be looking for in a successful advancement officer?

In the person himself, I think you would have to look at someone who's not afraid of breaking new ground. Obviously, if this is the first thing, the first time we're doing this. Someone who's you know, pretty dedicated and hardworking. Often they're gonna be by themselves, so they have to be that self starter.

And you know, they probably have to, they have to not be one of those people who are afraid to ask. You know, because if they don't really want to be there and you're just switching a soon to be [00:15:00] retiring English teacher into this spot you know, to let them have two or three more years of work before they officially retire, but they don't really want to do it.

That's not going to work. I have in my consulting days, I faced that in the past and the person in the one case wanted to be an IT person and literally said to me, well, yeah, everything you make sense. Everything you said makes sense. And I think it would work, but I just physically don't want to do it.

And so things like that obviously are not going to work. So you really probably have to have a really energetic, dedicated person to, who will not get lost in the mission of it. And so, you know, if they're also the part time theater person and they're going to spend 90 percent of the time doing the costumes for the upcoming play, like that is just not going to work.

They really have to be dedicated to that. With some skills that, you know, they're not afraid to talk to people, you know, I happen to be a communications background, which I think was kind of a perfect [00:16:00] alignment in, in some writing skills and talking skills you need someone who's going to be able to relate to people that, that are not going to be awkward in social settings.

yeah and I think too, just, know, you're talking about the person who's 90 percent in the theater and 10 percent in advancement. Yeah. To our principals out there, if you're going to bring on this Advancement Director, you've got to let them be your Advancement Director, okay? They can't be pulled into 15 other things where they're not able to do the work of the Advancement because they need to be out there meeting with donors.

They need to be out there connecting with people and really forging those relationships.

That's right. And so you or your principal or your whoever leader has to also be, proactive in saying to other faculty members, perhaps or other staff members. This is not our carpool line leader that we're hiring.

And so for the, for those two 30 minute periods a day, we're not having them greet kids [00:17:00] or get kids lined up. We're that's just not the hour. If we're hiring them for 20 hours a week and five of the hours, Monday through Friday is one hour a day is that like that is

not it. Yeah, and that's when you're going to see the return on your investment is not reaching its maximum potential, which is going to frustrate you.

And then you're going to say, why are we doing this? See, I knew it wouldn't work right there. That's right. You've got to give the person that opportunity, give them the skill set, give them the tools that they need. Let them grow into the position and learn. I mean, cause that's the thing right there.

We, we all know when we're taking on this role of advancement and that there is a learning curve with it. And there are things that we look back and go, Oh, I should have approached this donor differently, or I should have looked into this more, I should have taken this approach, things like that.

And we learn and we grow. That's all we can do with it.

Yeah, I was the first development director at my high school alma mater, the unpronounceable Silesianum. Yes. And we were about a hundred years old. We had a president who had done some fundraising things, and including an annual fund, so set the stage.

But I was the first development [00:18:00] director. And I had no idea what I was doing. I didn't know what fundraising was. And I saw my own alumni record and realized that I got financial aid to attend that school, as did my four older brothers who all went to this all boys, private high school Catholic high school.

And so, it started to click for me, but the, they also gave me the resources. And so, They brought in a consultant to help me learn what it was. I went to a conference or two and to really then put the skills, you know, to work and so that was invaluable, otherwise I'd be making stuff up completely and really wouldn't know what I'm doing.

So it is an important thing to give them the tools, you know, do they have a database is there a small budget to, do things, you

know, it's important. Yeah, because you don't know what you don't know until you know it. And so you have to go out there. Now you mentioned before, just a moment ago about the you know, the president who was at the school.

Talk about the relationship [00:19:00] between whether it's a principal or president that a school has and the advancement office because a principal just can't be hands off and go, well, you go raise the money but at the same time, the advancement director can't rely on the principal to just do all the fundraising as well.

There really needs to be that active partnership between the two. What role do you see in the advancement world of that partnership playing? What's the relationship there look like?

Yeah, I think there needs to be ongoing conversations, you know, formal times where you get a half hour, an hour, once a week, every other week, whatever it is, to talk development from that principal or the president and so that it is a part of the normal life and not just a month later just come in and say, okay, how much money did you raise this past month?

And cause there, and there, as you said, there, there has to be a role for that leader. Someone. is going to make an investment in you and they are given investment at a higher level, especially they are used to making [00:20:00] investments in businesses and other things with their time, their money, other people's monies as investors.

And so the concept of investing is normal to them. But they do it around leadership. They're going to look for what is the leadership. And so if it is a 20 hour a week or even 20, 40 hours, a full time person, that is great. But they if they don't have that buy in from a principal or president and where applicable a pastor if it's a that, that type of school that has that structure that can be important as well.

And so but you know, you as a development person, you only have them for certain a number of time, right? You, they can't do a hundred percent of their time into this either. So where are you going to strategically use them? And so, you know, you really have to have specific conversations on how.

They are going to be used and what their skills are to be used. They might not like to ask either. And so you could be having a conversation with someone [00:21:00] and they are giving the leadership part and the visionary part. And the development director is doing the asking. Some leaders have no problem and love to ask.

the person with the collar, it's tougher to say no to, right? And so if it's that head person, whether religious or not, it's just tougher to say no to that person versus a 20 hour a week. part time employee, even though they're the development person. And so, that breakdown of who is doing what and staying strategic in your actions, your activities, and who is, you know, it's just it's indispensable.

Absolutely. No, totally agree with that one. So there does need to be that active partnership and everybody playing a role. And I think you hit an hour on that too, with that time together. Whether it's a half hour a week or an hour a week or whatever, just to kind of go over everything. Where am I needed as a leader of the school?

And where, you know, where are you working towards? What are some goals you're hitting? Things like that, just to really keep tabs on [00:22:00] things. And it's not that you're micromanaging the person, but you also need to know where you're needed as the leader of the school, so that you can best support your efforts.

Because as we said, this is an investment in your school right there. And so you're not going to invest in this person and just kind of go, good luck. We'll see you in June. Let me know how you

did on everything. Yeah, 100 percent right, John. And maybe it's the development director running most of that meeting, that 30 minutes, you know, or whatever meeting and putting together the agenda items.

And this is where I need you. And this is how you can support me. And this is, you know, so it's important to keep having that conversation.

Ongoing communication there for sure. So now let's shift a little bit to that school that has the development director, the advancement director, they're in place.

We're moving forward. The plane is climbing. They're gaining altitude here. What are some strategies that you would suggest to a fundraising officer to ensure that they're able to maximize their potential for success? Because I think sometimes we look at the other schools, we compare ourselves to the Joneses, and we try [00:23:00] to do too much when we just aren't there yet.

But there's also sometimes when we don't do enough to push ourselves. So that school that maybe has this advancement officer and is looking at these other schools going, my goodness, they raised 4 million on an annual fund this year and we did 25, 000 last year. How do we get to 4 million? And realize you're not going to get there in one year.

What are some strategies that you might suggest to them to maximize that success?

I think you know, the fundamentals are so important and concentrating on those fundamentals and realizing that it is just an extra zero or something that one school has and the other school wants to get to. And it will take time as you said but it takes the strategy and paying attention to some data.

and, you know, realizing that just the fundamentals of development such as the 80 20 rule, 80 percent of the money coming from 20 percent of the people it's when most of these things start, it seems like, the first thing is, well, we [00:24:00] have 200 people in our, population, everyone is going to give 100, and now we have 200, 000.

And it zero times works out that way. when I was running at Malden Catholic, our annual fund, which we grew to into the seven figures. Every single year, no matter what the year was of what we were raising, where we started, when you're finished, it was incredible that we had Within one percentage point, 85 percent of the funds were coming from 11 percent of the people.

And so, without fail, over six years, and our number went from 400, 000 to a million dollar annual fund, and it stayed that same. And so, where you start to build from that one place or another is by those fundamentals. Who are your leaders? What are those leadership gifts? And then keep working on that culture and bring people along.

The bandwagon effect [00:25:00] is, so important. Have some early success. Where can that happen? Again, bigger gifts can make that happen. So who are the leaders in your community within your school? What alumni do you have? I think especially at, if you're talking about like an elementary school or just starting high school, I think most high schools are in place now, but they don't think of alumni and they think, well, they were.

You know, they left when they were 13 years old and they, those same donors are also the people who are giving the million dollar gifts to the high school and to the other. tell me they're not going to be interested just because it's an elementary school. Maybe some. Maybe not. Maybe some are going to be more interested because it's an elementary school.

It's a battle working for a university that does raise a lot of money that we have that conversation all the time with people. Some people say, well, you raise too much money already. And so why would I want to invest there? I like to give to local or to, you know, smaller or whatever. [00:26:00] And so we certainly have our response to that.

there are some big time advantages you could have as an elementary school and or smaller non profit and you just need to take that step to do it and not be afraid to have that conversation because you can hit it out of the park with, one or two conversations. And,

and everybody has their interest level.

Some people, you know, I remember we, we had a priest a few years ago when talking with our donor, thank you reception at the beginning of the year. And he said, you know, the things that we tend to give money to start, no offense to you, Tim, but then the colleges and then to the high schools.

And then the last group we think about are the elementary schools. When the foundations that we all learned in our lives came from the elementary schools. Okay. And then we carried those forward to our high school and built upon those. And then we took those talents forward to our colleges or universities or whatever, and those blossomed.

He said, but yet, when we talk about giving, it tends [00:27:00] to be the elementary schools who are the last ones that people think about. So there are folks out there that are genuinely interested in the success of our elementary schools, of our Catholic elementary schools, but you have to forge those relationships, and you gotta make an ask.

You have to ask.

It comes down to that. And that's why I started this this part of the conversation is you've got to focus on the fundamentals and it comes down to that simplicity is that, you know, at Duke we have a very large fundraising operation because we've been doing it so long and we do raise a lot of money because we are asking.

And so you are 100 percent right. It's the reason they're not doing as well is because they're not asking and yes, size we're bigger, we have more students, et cetera, et cetera, we have, you know, 200, 000 alums, but, just remove whatever zeros you need to do to draw the correlation to the size of your community.

I was giving a workshop to a bunch of schools a number of years ago, and I happened to be a graduate of. One of the [00:28:00] elementary schools, and that was in attendance, and I the principal was my old math teacher and I said, you know, there's no way you should not be starting an annual fund here, or starting development, and not asking the alums and, it didn't happen, I still, many years later, have not ever received an ask from this elementary school, and it's a shame, you know, there's a great opportunity out there, and they do need to ask.

You, you gotta start somewhere. You gotta take that 10,000 mile journey with one step to start with. Yeah. As they say. So sometimes we get a new development director or a principal that they step into a job and maybe your previous administrations, your previous development directors, whatever the case might be.

weren't as effective as they could be. They're not exactly set up for success. And now comes the task of the cleanup effort. Maybe funds were misused or funds were mismanaged or things like that. And you have these folks that are coming into the, to these [00:29:00] positions now. Trying to give and save credits save the credibility of the school in regards to their fundraising efforts.

So for a leader who might be in that position, what advice would you give to them in terms of kind of rebuilding that reputation when it comes to giving?

There's too many examples of that happening, right, John? And so for whatever reason, it was a former leader, it was the accountant who, you know, something happened, it was whatever it might be.

Right. And so, that can take a little bit more effort and specific time to to get over. However, I, you know, again, leaders recognize leadership. And so they had to build a business, they had to do whatever. And so if that new team or new leadership is in place then I think people will quickly change.

They're mine, you know, so I'm a Detroit lions fan. So I'm sorry to go athletics on you, but yes. Ooh, is the common response, even though I'm not from [00:30:00] Detroit. They're like why would you pick that team? And cause they've been horrible for most of our last 60 years. And so, that is like, okay but now you have a coach and a general manager in there that.

People are on board with and they get it and they've shown like that early success and while they have a hiccup or two, you know, they still go forward. And you can look at that many, you know, at Duke, our football team has not been the winningest program in history. people got on board with a new coach who can demonstrate.

And so it is a leadership issue that can quickly turn things around and say, Hey, we're going in this new direction. And I'm going to show you that we are. And I'd really love you to be on board with that. If I'd love for you to be on board today, if you need six months to see that we're going on board before you get on the bandwagon, I understand why but, please, in six months when I return to you, be [00:31:00] open to having this conversation again.

That's all I can ask for you. And so, I think you can turn it around pretty quickly and hopefully my Lions will get to the Super Bowl next year. I hope they will too. But yeah. Random people are now like, I'm rooting for the lions because, you know, they, it's a bandwagon effect and you can create that a little different scale again than my lions, but you can recreate that, I think, fairly quickly in a school.

And I think it just comes down to saying what you mean and meaning what you say and then doing it. Okay. If you're saying one thing and doing another. When it comes to advancement, there's nothing that's gonna get people to jump off of that bandwagon faster than a loss of credibility right there.

And we'll hope that your Lions and my Pittsburgh Pirates will all be celebrating at the same time right there, right? There you go. That's right. So, when we talk about that Development Director or that Advancement Director that's, we said they're getting started, where do you see schools leaving money on the table early in the early [00:32:00] stages of their advancement efforts?

I think their thinking is too small. I think they they think about, well, we haven't really done this before, and so let's start by asking everyone for 100. And that is a mistake, So I would start at the top of the pyramid. If you know, do that, the inverted pyramid of the giving and the 80 percent coming from 20 percent of the people, who are the leaders who can be a leader financially with a gift?

And start, you know, a great thing to kick things off is having a challenge grants, you know, so there might be a community member who will give you 10, 000, 25, 000 to issue a challenge to kickstart an annual fund. So, don't think that can't happen because it. Often can, and your donors, if you're not asking them, they're giving their money to something else, like we were talking about earlier.

And so, go out and be very proactive and ask. Who, even if you [00:33:00] have a small community, you have ten people, you know, list the top ten in your community that could possibly consider this. And talk to all ten of those in the first month or two.

And then once we get those folks on board with our mission and on board with becoming this culture of giving I think one of the things that I see schools sometimes they just overlook completely is that thank you, that, that thank you to to this donor who has stepped forward.

And sometimes they want to be anonymous, and sometimes they want to have a red carpet rolled out for them, you know, whatever the case might be. What are some creative thank yous that you've seen schools do?

Yeah, so I think that is probably the most important thing, and I would say, you hear the word stewardship a lot in my time at the diocese and at work.

Parishes use it as a way mostly to say parishioners should, you know, showing good stewardship, give us more money or, and then, so it's used in that fashion instead. But I, we use it more in advancement in saying thank [00:34:00] you. And so, you being good stewards of their gifts. And so that, different creative ways to be stewards can really depend on the community and what is what is happening there.

But I would And it's a great way to use your volunteers that, you know, we're a little skeptical or don't want to ask somebody. But little receptions it can be small breakfast time with the principal before school coffee with the president. You could you know, I mentioned earlier about having a scholarship reception.

That was, you know, I even mentioned about myself receiving a scholarship and I didn't know it as a student. we brought for many of our larger donors. By connecting them to the kids, people give to people for people. And so to not make a connection with kids. Or your, whatever your purpose is for your non profit is a big mistake.

So, could be thank you notes. It could be, you know, your, all the kids are making St. Patrick's [00:35:00] Day cards and maybe two or three of them, go to this anonymous donor and say, hey, thank you so much. Whatever the case might be do it early and often.

Yeah, I think that's so important right there because those little things add up to make a big impact and I don't just mean financially but they make a big impact on growing your community.

So, so Tim, last question for you here. Jim Collins once wrote a book called Going Good to Great, okay? And when we talk about our advancement efforts we want to take this from a non existent stage at some schools. to make it good and then to take what's good and to make it great. There are schools out there who have gained some traction.

What advice would you give to them over the next 18 to 36 months, so to speak, to take what they're doing that's good and making it great? Maybe that school that has a 100, 000 annual fund and getting it to that 200, 000 because right now they may be going, Wow, this is as good as we're going to get. But there's still room to grow out there.

What advice would you give to them over the next two to three [00:36:00] years to gain even more steam and to go to that great status?

Yeah, great question. And I'm going to be a really boring answer on John, so I apologize in advance, but it's the fundamentals. You don't, there's no magic trick card in your deck that is going to suddenly do X, Y, or Z.

And sticking with the fundamentals of who can help you financially and not be scared of having that thoughts in your head or having that conversation with the principal or if you have an admissions person or if you have the lunch line person or not the line, but the carpool line, who's driving the crazy expensive cars?

Like in some respects, especially Catholic elementary schools are going to think like, that is just foreign to It's almost irresponsible to think of, like, that information and to use that, but, [00:37:00] you know, the fundamentals of who can make that financial impact on your school are extremely important. And so, whatever the indicators are that, You have to take advantage of and to then build upon.

And so it's not a magical, you're going to make your own magic by focusing on the fundamentals. So maybe a little bit of a boring answer. There is no magic trick, but but there really isn't. It's just the hard work I use research in quotes, but it can be your own, you know, your own conversations, your own observances.

That's right. That's right. Yeah, and

I think, too, don't forget about those grandparents, and don't forget about those matching gifts out there as well, because there's a lot of companies out there that'll match gifts. When we talk about leaving money on the table if we don't make those opportunities available to us, some of these companies will match 2 to 1, 3 to 1 on donations.

I mean, that's free money coming into your

school. Yeah. A number of years ago, I went down into our school's main office and [00:38:00] started looking at like, family files looking for indicators of wealth. And the front office staff gave me a look and then basically said, you are not allowed to look at any files.

And I said I'm a, employee of the school. I, you know, I'm doing it for this purpose. I'm not, broadcasting information. I'm not whatever, but it allowed me. And then I went to the finance office and did kind of have the same conversation. You mentioned grandparents.

You know, what grandparents are paying full tuition for their kids, for the grandkids? And who are who's doing it by a stock transfer that's even allowed at your school? I mean there's indicators that are coming into your school all the time And you should not be afraid to you know, you're not violating anything you are Using indicators that they're already telling you that It's worth a conversation having with them, or it's worth starting a grandparents day, or it's, you know, whatever it is to get them in the building and to get connected to

your community.[00:39:00]

Well, Tim, I can't thank you enough for your time today, your expertise. Always a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much, and we wish you the best of luck for the rest of this year moving forward at Duke.

Thank you, John. Same to you. Great to be here. I appreciate it.

If you're enjoying the Catholic School Leaders podcast, please be sure to like and subscribe, and don't forget to share these podcasts with other Catholic school leaders in your network.